Welcome to Real Science Radio: Co-hosts Bob Enyart and Fred Williams talk about science to debunk evolution and to show the evidence for the creator God including from biology, genetics, geology, history, paleontology, archaeology, astronomy, philosophy, cosmology, math, and physics. (For example, mutations will give you bad legs long before you'd get good wings.) We get to debate Darwinists and atheists like Lawrence Krauss, AronRa, and Eugenie Scott. We easily take potshots from popular evolutionists like PZ Myers, Phil Plait, and Jerry Coyne. The RSR Archive contains our popular List Shows! And we interview the outstanding scientists who dare to challenge today's accepted creed that nothing created everything.
Correction: James Craft is speaking in:
- Sterling at 7 p.m. tonight, Wednesday, at the First English Lutheran Church
- Ft. Morgan at 7 p.m. on Thursday at Calvary University Innovation Center
- Denver at 7 p.m. on Friday at our Rocky Mountain Creation Fellowship at the Littleton Baptist Church
- Colo Spgs at 1 p.m. on Saturday at Mesa Hills Bible Church.
The journal Science published a report indicating that 30,000 U.S. public high school biology teachers (consistent with many thousands of scientists and scholars) do not endorse Darwinism in class! One of those science teachers, who taught at Green Bay, Wisconsin, is James Craft. With a major in biology and a minor in chemistry from the University of Wisconsin at Madison, that bastion of liberalism, Jim taught his students two models, the unreasonable one, evolution, and the reasonable one, creation. For as the Bible says, faith is the [proper response to the] evidence for things not seen, whereas it is unreasonable to believe, against all scientific knowledge, in a materialist origin of life (OOL) claim that life could arise from non-life. (By the way, we'll discuss abiogenesis that with a biochemist on Friday's RSR program and on March 27 we'll resume our series with Fred Williams on the problems with star formation.) Jim Craft is speaking around Colorado's front range this week in the evenings at 7 p.m., tonight in Sterling at the First English Lutheran Church, tomorrow at Calvary University Innovation Center in Ft. Morgan, Friday at our Rocky Mountain Creation Fellowship at the Littleton Baptist Church, and at 1 p.m. on Saturday afternoon in Colorado Springs at Mesa Hills Bible Church.
* Star Formation Problems: Real Science Radio hosts Bob Enyart and Fred Williams discuss the problems with star formation and the laws of physics that collapse the theory... but not the nebula! See also Part 2 and Part 3!
Standard Models Start Late: The models for star formation begin, amazingly, with the explosion of preexisting stars (e.g., "When these forces fall out of balance, such as due to a supernova shock wave, the cloud begins to collapse") or, as with the classic study by Larson which assumed a starting point where the hypothetical condensation was already well under way. Analytical calculations and computer simulators do not show that star formation is possible based upon the known laws of physics. Star Rotation: The "angular momentum problem" as Larsen calls it (2003, The physics of star formation), recognizes that the rotation rates of the potential star-forming nebulae are a thousand times greater than could possibly be contained in a star (without it flying apart). As a spinning nebula condensed, its spin would be conserved, like a figure skater pulling in her arms, so that the rotation rate of a star would be wildly fast beyond anything known in the universe. Condensing Nebula: Condensing a gas cloud, like the Eagle Nebula, would increase pressure and temperature, which would then expand the cloud, because the weak force of gravity is easily overpowered by the cloud's pressure, as well as its angular momentum. Further, the cloud would have to be more massive than an average star yet orders of magnitude smaller than any known nebulae. Magnetic Strength: The journal Science published what amounts to a parallel of the angular momentum problem, "Interstellar clouds are permeated by magnetic fields that we believe to be effectively frozen to the contracting gas; as the gas cloud collapses to form a star, the magnetic field lines should be compressed ever closer together, giving rise to enormous magnetic fields, long before the collapse is completed. These fields would resist further collapse, preventing the formation of the expected star; yet we observe no evidence of strong fields, and the stars [allegedly] do form, apparently unaware of our theoretical difficulties." Dark Matter to the Rescue (Again): If gravity working on matter were sufficient to explain star formation, scientists would not be pinning their hope on dark matter. As explained in 2007 by a Reuters science correspondent Dark matter key to formation of first stars, "As the universe initially was only helium and hydrogen, dark matter was critical in providing the gravitational force to pull these elements together to form stars. Now that there are other objects in the galaxy [including pre-existing exploding stars], dark matter is not needed to form stars." Then again in 2014 a Nature paper on the formation of the first stars and galaxies was described by Caltech's Richard Ellis, "Now we can get to grips with how stars and galaxies form and relate it to dark matter. You can make stars and galaxies that look like the real thing. But it is the dark matter that is calling the shots." As a theory rescue device, dark matter is rather flexible! Population III: The BB predicts that the "first generation" of stars stars, referred to as Population III stars, would have been comprised only of hydrogen and helium (without metals, i.e., heavy elements) and that they should still be plentiful. Yet even though many millions of stars have been studied and cataloged, not even one Population III star has been found. "Astronomers have never seen a pure Population III star, despite years of combing our Milky Way galaxy." -Science Jan. 4, 2002, p. 66 (see this reference and many more). Recently this problem was defined away by claiming that the smallest Pop III stars would have been a thousand times more massive than previously claimed and so would more rapidly expend their nuclear fuel. But then in Nov. 2018, an allegedly 13.5 Gyr-old very small binary star system was discovered rewinding the wildly morphing stellar evolution hypothesis. No Dust to Form Molecular Hydrogen: If the so-called first generation stars could overcome all other star formation hurdles and have their formation helped by the use of molecular hydrogen, an additional problem (not unlike the difficulty of forming raindrops without a pollution/particulate nucleus) exists in that hydrogen atoms are unlikely to bond without a landing surface of sorts. Blue Star Assembly Line: Short-lived (1M to 10M-yr) Blue "straggler" stars unexpectedly found in allegedly much-older clusters. Particular Stars Acknowledged as Unexplainable: See below, examples of individual stars, one nearby and one faraway, that leading scientists say, "should not exist" according to current theory, regarding research published in leading journals. Millions of Years of Missing Stage 3 Supernovas: An explosion appeared in the night sky in 1054 A.D. as a supernova remnant (SNR) forming the Crab Nebula. Big bang theory predicts a significant rate of star explosions (one every 25 to 100 years). Yet, not only are there millions of years of missing SNRs of Stage 3 diameter, further, the number of Stage 1 and Stage 2 SNRs correspond well to the expected number if the universe is less than 10,000 years old. (For more on this, check out this RSR program.)
* A Place in the History of Molecular Biology: At Cambridge University, anti-Darwinist Douglas Axe worked for some of the world's leading molecular biologists in the laboratory established by four Nobel laureates including the guys who discovered DNA's double-helix. Decades after Watson and Crick broke the field of molecular biology wide open, evolutionists at Cambridge were still publishing the claim that the recipe for building proteins had just a couple of rudimentary requirements. Doug's groundbreaking research showed that the "simple model" of protein construction was false. Further, shocking to evolutionists, Axe showed that the very particular order of hundreds of various amino acids was a very specific sequence needed for standard protein function (with a specific, different sequence needed for each kind of protein). Real Science Radio host Bob Enyart is honored to interview Dr. Axe!
* To Get the Book: You can purchase Doug's fabulous book wherever great boooks are sold including at Amazon.com or elsewhere as listed at the book's website, UndeniableDesign.com!
* Other RSR Discovery Institute Interviews: To hear our other fun and information interviews with Discovery Institute scientists and scholars, just click on over to rsr.org/di.
* The Richard Dawkins 3-to-1 Evolution Challenge: Research for a debate on the Bible led Bob Enyart and his associate Will Duffy to Oxford University. While there, thinking about the popularity of RSR's graphical evolution challenges, such as the Evolution Vision Challenge and about the success of our PZ Myers Trochlea Challenge (click for that evolutionist's reply), the guys decided to hand deliver to the Oxford office of professor emeritus Richard Dawkins a printed copy of RSR's Dawkins 3-to-1 Challenge. (Dawkins still lectures there for a course titled, Science Literacy: Evolution for Non-Scientists.) Intelligent Design arguments based on complexity, like the flagellum argument offered by Michael Behe, are powerful yet that very complexity provides opportunities for opponents to obfuscate. (For example, if a cellular component is assembled from twenty parts, an evolutionist can make somewhat irrelevant comments about two or three of those parts, and get millions of evolutionists to claim that he has refuted that design challenge.) Thus Real Science Radio has been testing arguments based on the simpler, rather than the more complex, aspects of organisms. It appears that these inherently simpler arguments may more effectively demonstrate the inability of the materialist worldview to explain biology. (Our Myers Trochlea Challenge is just such an argument, focusing on one of the simplest parts of the human vision system.) So the graphic that we delivered to New College asserts that neither Richard Dawkins, nor any materialist, will ever be able to answer this simple Dawkins 3-to-1 Evolution Challenge:
Upate -- Temple Grandin on HCQ: On the phone on March 18th with renowned scientist Temple Grandin Bob Enyart and Temple were talking about the report just out in the Nature journal Cell Discovery. At rsr.org/hcq you can find out more about our call.
* Review of Patterns III: Red Sea Miracle: Real Science Radio hosts Bob Enyart and Fred Williams review Tim Mahoney's third installment in his Patterns of Evidence series, The Red Sea Miracle. The guys begin with audience favorite, CSU professor autism spokesperson and author of 60 peer-reviewed scientific papers on animal behavior Temple Grandin, who answers Mahoney's question about whether sheep could travel twenty miles a day for days on end. "If the people can do it the sheep can do it" she answered bluntly. Thus this woman, named by Time magazine as one of the hundred most influential people in the world, swiped away in a simple sentence a century of objection to the "Hebrew approach" on crossing the desert to the sea. That was one of various objections, both scholarly (like the location of yam suph) and colloquial (like sandals would wear out), addressed by the film's evaluation of the "Egyptian approach" of a nearby, smaller, and less miraculous crossing as compared to what Mahoney calls a "Hebrew approach" to a far greater and more miraculous Red Sea Crossing. (This RSR episode was recorded the day after the nationwide fathom event screening. And consider visiting the rsr.org/exodus landing page for our list of evidence!)
* Mahoney's Patterns:
Patterns of Evidence -- The Exodus: Arrival; Multiplication; Slavery; Judgment; Exodus; Conquest.
Patterns of Evidence -- Moses Controversy: Match the Look; Readable; Match the History.
Patterns of Evidence -- The Red Sea Miracle: Departure Point; Direction; Desert; Detour to a Dead End; Deep Sea; Destination to Mt. Sinai.
* The Reversal of Egyptologist Manfred Bietak: In the early 2000s after years leading Egyptian excavations Egyptologist Manfred Bietak on camera answers Mahoney's question about evidence for the Israelites in Egypt, bluntly stating, "So far, not." That wasn't the "so far" of a hopeful investigator but rather as a mainstream scholar he did not recognize the historicity of the Hebrew sojourn and added, "To connect this with the Israelites is a very weak affair." Fast forward more than a decade later and Mahoney again interviews him, asking about any knowledge gained in the intervening years, "Do you [now] see a place where the Israelites could have lived?" And in a dramatic reversal, "A very exciting evidence comes from the region of the Wadi Tumilat" Bietak says pointing to the Goshen region on a map. "I was able to prove that the western half of Wadi Tumilat was an enormous overflow lake, because it was a kind of enormous basin, fed by a branch of the Nile, eighteen kilometers long, 1.8 kilometers wide. What is most interesting, Sarah Groll [the late linquist Egyptologist toponyms expert] pointed it out, there is a lake in one of the Ramesside texts called Geshem, Gesem." This is one of the semitic place names Groll identified. "And indeed in the Septuagint version," Bietak continued, "Goshen is written as Gesem. … Gesem is a semitic lake tied to a big lake, and it can only be this lake" he says tapping on the map at Goshen. So Mahoney askms why semitic place names would appear in Egypt and Bietak answered. "Why did Egyptian scribes for heavens sake use semitic toponyms for an area that belongs to Egypt? It could only mean that the people living there, the majority, spoke a semitic language. Here we have the name Pithom tied to a Ramasside document" pointing again to the map. "I think that one should not mistrust the story of the sojourn of the Israelites in Egypt. I think there is packed inside, a story which may have an historic background." See also rsr.org/exodus#goshen.
* On Yam Suph / The Red Sea: BEL DRAFT NOTES. The last thing that the world needs is a new idea on the Red Sea. But, what if Yam Suph did not exist as a toponym (a geographic name) prior to the sea crossing, but rather, as Moses was saved in the suph of the Nile's waters, the water crossed took on that idiomatic name precisely because the Israelites were saved through its waters? Watching Tim Mahoney's Red Sea Miracle prompted the following idea. Scholars in the film state what has long been known, that the Hebrew yam means sea, and that suph does not mean red, but rather, reeds. Consider that the "names" of the pagan gods were not so much personal names as titles of (false) deity such as Baal, and likewise the words Abimelech, Xerxes, and Artaxerxes may not be names of individuals but titles of royalty. Similarly, what if yam suph was not the pre-existing name of a specific body of water but rather referred to a watery saving? Consider also that dramatic events often give rise to new figures of speech. The creation week led to the number seven meaning completion and likewise the flood's days of rain led to forty meaning a fully sufficient amount of time. After Moses was saved through the Nile's waters when his mother hid him in the suph, that is, in the reeds (twice stated in Exodus 2), perhaps an idiomatic expression arose regarding a saving involving water which became a suph saving?
Pondering the above proposal, consider the 28 uses of suph in the Bible:
- The suph of the Nile where Moses was saved (Ex. 2:3, 5)
- The suph sea where the wind blew the locusts (Ex. 10:19)
- The suph sea referencing where Israel was saved (22 times; though a couple of these need to be examined further)
- The suph sea of Solomon's ships (at the Gulf of Aqaba 1 Ki 9:26)
- Though the suph wrapped around his head Jonah was saved (2:5)
As the antithesis, Isaiah 49 provides the final reference stating that Egypt's "waters will fail from the sea and the river will be wasted... reeds and suph will wither" (Isa. 49:6) so that whereas God's people were saved, those arrayed against Him can expect no watery suph saving. Regarding Jonah in the Mediterranean, if this RSR idea is valid, then it is not the location that makes a body of water a "suph sea", but a salvation by that water. So the Jonah reference would then be an instance of typical word usage. A word that has a particular connotation is often used as a subtle figure of speech, where a shade of meaning imparts a tone to the text. The Holy Spirit knew what ancient men did not, that whales don't eatseaweed. But Jonah's head is wrapped in the suph subtly indicating, by the choice of that vocabulary word, that he will be saved.
Two Ways Suph as Idiom May Help: Studying the Exodus route, if suph as an idiom is true, there would be no need to search for a body of water previously identified as yam suph. When Israel was saved through the sea, it became the suph sea, such that the most significant use of this new figure of speech actually conferred a new name, for a time anyway, onto that body of water. (If the sea crossed had not been previously known by any distinctive name to the Israelites, that would make adoption of this idiom even more likely.) Second, a lack of reeds would not mitigate against the "Hebrew approach", as Tim Mahoney calls it, to locating the Red Sea miracle at the Gulf of Aqaba.
Bob Enyart urges you to go to the movies tonight! (Just enter your zip code for tickets and nationwide theater locations.) Fred Williams and I will be at the Colorado Mills theater in Golden, Colorado with our wives to see Tim Mahoney's Patterns 3: The Red Sea Miracle! And for now, sit back and enjoy Bob's interview, on the "day of" with the filmmaker himself!
In Colorado? If you're in the Denver area, please join Bob to fill up the Colorado Mills theater in Golden! (See image, right, showing seats taken and seats available, as of Tuesday 4 p.m.)
Mahoney has turned what was the weakest area in apologetics into a treasure house of of extrabiblical evidence corroborating the Israelites' seminal event.
So tonight, Tuesday, February 18th at 7 p.m. at a theater near you, your presence is cordially requested... providing, of course, that you buy a ticket and invite at least one other person to go to the movies with you! :)
And, based on Mahoney's work, see our own List of Evidence for the Exodus page at rsr.org/exodus.
Real Science Radio hosts Bob Enyart and Fred Williams conclude their discussion of polystrate trees, polystrate jellyfish, polystrate tadpoles, and many other kinds of polystrate fossils including vertically buried leaves, a mesosaur buried in varves, a whale in diatoms, a school of whales vertically through four strata, an organism's delicate spines radiating through solid rock strata, nautiloids standing on their points in solid limestone, a school of perch, a dinosaur footprint, and three-dimensional trilobites. To hear Parts 1 and 2, and to see our full list, just click on over to rsr.org/polystrates and see especially the photos at rsr.org/polystrate#leaves.
- Dinosaur Footprint Polystrates: Two photos, bottom right, and another below that (with two granddaughters of an RSR listener) were taken at the USA's #1 track site as ranked by a panel of paleontologists, Denver's Dinosaur Ridge.
Colorado's famous Dinosar Ridge footprints are pressed into the Dakota rock formation. The RSR hosts are radio guys and not geologists but Bob recalled that these deposits (we think they're the Plainview Formation of the Dakota group) stretch for hundreds of miles around the Denver hogbacks. So, how much scientific curiosity do mainstream geologists have regarding the polystrate footprints there, and what they require of the rapidity of the formation of their layers? A single polystrate establishes that these deformed layers, just west of Denver off of Interstate 70, were deposited rapidly enough that multiple strata were all still soft at the same time a dinosaur stepped into them. And what's more, those layers appear to be consistent in many ways with their underlying layers, suggesting a similar depositional history.
Question: Does mainstream geology have a term for these kinds of polystrates?
Question: Do mainstream geologists want to know whether their explanations for upright trees can explain other kinds of polystrates, including dinosaur footprints?
Question: If polystrate footprint fossils indicate the rapid deposition of some iconic rock layers that cover a great extent in the Rocky Mountain region, would mainstream geologists be interested in knowing that, or even, in exploring it?
Answer, sadly: No.
Another question that is asked frequently is how long ago were these rocks of the Morrison and Dakota Formations laid down? The Field Guide gives 150 million years ago for the Morrison, in the upper part of the 208-144 million year ago Jurassic Period. A value of 100 million years ago is listed for the Dakota Formation, in the lower part of the 144-66 million year ago Cretaceous Period. Scott (1972) lists each forma- tion as about 300 feet (100 meters) thick. A crude estimate of average depositional rates can be made by dividing 200 meters of strata by 50 million years, yielding an average of 4 micrometers per year. Being off by a factor of about 2 in either or both of these numbers does not really affect the illustration... Nearly everyone can see that nothing can be buried and preserved at that slow rate. Dinosaurs, especially, need to be covered with at least their own thickness of sediment before they rot or are scavenged...
Though not mentioned in his Field Guide, [Martin] Lockley has verbally claimed to have found some dinosaur footprints in the [Dinosaur Ridge] area that are so perfect that he can even see the texture of the skin of the feet. Preservation of such features necessitates burial by about a cm of sediment in a fraction of a day in gentle, non-erosive conditions. Otherwise wind, water currents, rain, or other animals would obliterate [such features]. Waisgerber (1990) reminds us that fresh deposits are particularly vulnerable to erosion prior to consolidation and cementation. Though it varies with habitat and moisture conditions, the rate of destruction of footprints can be easily observed today... - Dr. Ed Holryod, CRSQ 1992, p. 9
As for other footprints in stone that falsify the old-earth timeframe, see these photographs taken by Bob Enyart near McKee, Oklahoma at rsr.org/footprints pressed into Pennsylvanian limestone, more footprints that are of no scientific interest to most geologists and paleontologists.
Real Science Radio co-host Bob Enyart presents the scientific evidence for Dr. Walt Browns model of the global flood, along with the relevant biblical material. Enyart also discusses Brown's opponents and contrasts both the vapor canopy and catastrophic plate tectonics with the hydroplate theory.
Real Science Radio hosts Bob Enyart and Fred Williams discuss polystrate trees, polystrate jellyfish, polystrate tadpoles, and many other kinds of polystrate fossils including vertically buried leaves, a mesosaur buried in varves, a whale in diatoms, a school of whales vertically through four strata, an organism's delicate spines radiating through solid rock strata, nautiloids standing on their points in solid limestone, a school of perch, a dinosaur footprint, and three-dimensional trilobites.
* Wuhan Flu: This map of China with the widely-recognized SARS-CoV-2 virus graphic superimposed is to not let their communist government get away with the lies and horrific behavior that ignited the pandemic. See this point made in Pastor Bob Enyart's 3/29/20 sermon (to be posted on this page) as he's expecting to preach it at (the presumed empty) Denver Bible Church, and see just below for our 1/29/20 RSR CoV program.
Dear CNN, please note. The satirical Babylon Bee story just above is fake whereas the following medical graphic is real.
* Special Mid-week RSR Episode: Real Science Radio host Bob Enyart interviews molecular biologist Dr. Kevin Anderson, director of the CRS Van Andel research center in Arizona on the coronavirus outbreak. Reportedly, early patients had connections to a seafood and animal market in Wuhan and, as reason for concern, Americans evacuated from that Chinese city land in Southern California. Thankfully though, already, the full genome of the 2019-nCoV coronavirus strain has been sequenced and made available publicly to researchers worldwide.
* On RSR Only: This early in the epidemic, as an RSR connection that you'll likely get no where else, remember that in October 2019 the journal Science reported on a huge breakthrough against the flu effective for apparently all known human and non-human strains. A family of three targeted antibodies disable all of the many varied forms of a viral protein by essentially putting a physical "loop" through the "gears" of the very mechanism used to spread the disease throughout the body. So, while a pandemic of course is possible, RSR remains optimistic because of such extraordinary developments! So stay tuned! Also, a 2018 Nobel prize winner has just confirmed something that Bob and Kevin said on air four years ago, that (among all the ways that Darwinism has hindered science), biology professors thought that killer immune system cells were "too weird evolutionarily" to even exist. That helps to explain why for "more than 100 years, medical researchers [most of them] concluded that the immune system and cancer simply had nothing to say to each other. ... Cancer immunotherapy was condemned as a quaint if simplistic idea based on... bad [non-Darwinian] science." And for other related programs, see rsr.org/kevin-anderson.
* Denver Post's Shelley Bradbury: In her report, Can a baby be abused in the womb?, a question not unlike, can a black be a racist (which itself is a racist question, demeaning, and shouldn't have to be asked), Bradbury quotes a CRTL spokesman...
Bob Enyart, a spokesman for Colorado Right To Life, said Wednesday he’d be glad to see such prosecutions. "That would be awesome," he said. "If the mother does drugs and her baby is born with an addiction, that is child abuse. We need to love our children and not treat them like disposable trash."
Colorado RTL has long pushed to establish personhood for unborn babies, and the issue has been put to the state's voters three times. Even though those who kill unborn babies commit a felony under the state's unlawful termination statute, Enyart said that law doesn't go far enough.
"It's as if you killed a man and you were charged with murder, but if you killed a woman you were charged with some kind of property crime," he said. "You could intuitively see the insult, and the disgrace that is, to dehumanize a whole sector of our society."
Many have heard about polystrate tree fossils, the thousands of trunks found over the last couple hundred years standing upright through multiple rock layers. (Poly means many, strata means geologic layer). Many polystrate fossils (see the list a few paragraphs down) have been buried crossing layers typically claimed to form over many thousands or even a million years. Regarding trees, areas noted for polystrate tree fossils include:
- Joggins in Nova Scotia
- Sydney, Nova Scotia (260 miles from Joggins)
- Lancashire in England
- Germany's Ruhr region
- Specimen Ridge in Yellowstone
- St. Etienne in France
- Australia, Eastern U.S., etc.
Google ranks us #1 in searches for:
list of polystrate fossils.
Trees form one kind of polystrate fossil, and this list, as we will see, is not a list of polystrate tree fossils, but far more significantly, it's a list of the kinds of polystrate fossils that exist. Regarding the formation of any kind of polystrate, of course, dead organisms cannot stand for thousands of years waiting to be buried. And characteristically such fossils, as with polystrates trees, show no greater erosion at their top than at their base. So a single true polystrate fossil compresses the time it took to lay down its burial strata into a relatively brief period.
* Geologists Assigning Polystrates to Creationists: Tycho Brahe unintentionally freed astronomy from deep systemic error by assigning the study of Mars' orbit to Johann Kepler. The needed paradigm shift then happened precisely because Kepler was tenaciously curious about the planet's orbital anomalies. Regarding polystrate anomalies, evolutionary geologists lack scientific curiosity only because they assume a systematic study will not provide signficant support for their own treasured assumptions about the geologic record. Therefore, they have left the task of exploring polystrates to creationists. And explore them we will.
* Evolutionary Explanations for Polystrates: Even though geology textbooks ignore polystrate fossils, explanations can be found at NCSE, Wikipedia, etc. We address below all four evolutionary explanations that we've been able to identify.
EE1 Rapid Sedimentation: As an exception to the (claimed) generally slow formation of most strata, the layers that bury a polystrate are deposited during a "rapid rate of sedimentation", for example, from a river flooding and burying growing trees. (See this at NCSE, the site of Bob's opponent Eugenie Scott. This EE1 is actually the correct explanation except for two big problems presented below at CR1 in our Creationist Rebuttals.)
EE2 Persistent Trees: As at Yellowstone's Specimen Ridge it is claimed that persistent trees became petrified standing through multiple strata that were long claimed to make up 50 successive forests, vertically, each growing and dying out, one forest on top of another, fifty times. Even though the Nat'l Park Service finally removed the exhibit (see below) that makes that false claim, nonetheless it shows an inherent polystrate explanation, that trees can remain vertically long enough for the passage of sufficient geologic time to see the rise and demise of multiple strata of successive forests.
EE3 Persistent Organisms with Rapid Sedimentation: A combination of the first two explanation, with trees, for example, buried by fast sedimentation, followed by a layer of slow sedimentation. For example from Talk Origins, they suggest an initial burial in sediments of "several feet" followed by continued slower sedimentation or perhaps additional rapid sedimentation events. Trees don't die and decay instantly, so polystrate trees remained upright through a sequence of fast sedimentation followed by slow sedimentation.
EE4 Rare Enough to Ignore: Polystrate fossils are extremely rare and mostly a creationist exaggeration so they can be ignored.
* The List of Kinds of Polystrate Fossils: (see examples below)
- Upright trees form only one kind of polystrate fossil, other kinds include...
- A school of jellyfish fossilized across seven vertical layers allegedly deposited over a million-year period - Fossilized end-to-end leaves standing on edge in super-slow deposited diatoms
- A fossilized pod of whales buried across four geologic strata
- A fossilized whale buried in diatomaceous earth
- A school of tadpoles in diatoms
- Aquatic mesosaur reptile in "annual" varves
- Delicate spines radiating through layers of now sold rock
- Nautiloids in the Redwall limestone which allegedly formed at 4,000 years per inch - A fossilized school of (an allegedly) extinct trout-perch species
- Three-dimensional trilobites in super-slowly deposited limestone
- Communities of organisms found in limestone
- Dinosaur footprints that deform multiple now rock-hard layers
- Etc. (the millions of fossils that cross strata boundaries or extend vertically through allegedly super-slowly formed rock)