Welcome to Real Science Radio: Co-hosts Bob Enyart and Fred Williams talk about science to debunk evolution and to show the evidence for the creator God including from biology, genetics, geology, history, paleontology, archaeology, astronomy, philosophy, cosmology, math, and physics. (For example, mutations will give you bad legs long before you'd get good wings.) We get to debate Darwinists and atheists like Lawrence Krauss, AronRa, and Eugenie Scott. We easily take potshots from popular evolutionists like PZ Myers, Phil Plait, and Jerry Coyne. We're the home of the popular List Shows! And we interview the outstanding scientists who dare to challenge today's accepted creed that nothing created everything.
What's hot in the field of original dinosaur biological tissue? Real Science Radio host Bob Enyart talks to molecular biologist Dr. Kevin Anderson who will also speak here in Arvada, Colorado on Sunday afternoon, June 2. For the $15 registration you'll also hear from RSR friends marine biologist Dr. Robert Carter, astronomer Dr. Danny Faulkner, and the scientist who is creating the geology equivalent of the human genome project, continent by continent, as Dr. Tim Clarey leads the project that for the first time ever is mapping the world's sedimentary layers! So register now for the Age of the Earth Conference sponsored by the Rocky Mountain Creation Fellowship and Denver Society of Creation.
Dr. Anderson co-authored a triceratops soft tissue paper and he challenges (the amazing) Dr. Mary Schweitzer (whom RSR amiably refers to as the Iron Maiden) in her claim that biological iron has the ability to preserve dinosaur biological material for tens of millions of years. (Hear about that on today's show and more at rsr.org/ms.)
* Factors that Lead to Tissue Decomposition: The folowing list is based on a presentation given by RSR friend and an industry colleague of Dr. Anderson, ICR's Brian Thomas at a Pittsburgh creation conference. Bob Enyart was in attendance considering the apparent contradiction of extant biological tissue in 100-million year-old fossils and wondering how many different rescue devices evolutionists would eventually appeal to in addressing these many factors of decomposition:
* The RSR Coal Prediction: Real Science Radio hosts Bob Enyart and Fred Williams welcome a celebrity caller. But before that, they present yet another creation science prediction and afterward they evaluate the general pattern of burial of fossils through the geologic column. In an important development on today's program, RSR predicts that all coal, including everything worldwide already mined, all known reserves, and any deposits discovered in the future, will equal a volume less than that which could be produced from the vegetation growing at one time on the lush preflood Earth. Evolutionists claim that lignite coal began to form 250 million years ago and bituminous coal 300 million years ago and that to turn vegetation into coal, the process itself takes millions of years (of course :). If this were true, it is conceivable that the total volume of coal, a non-renewable resource, could be many times greater than could be produced by the amount of vegetation growing on the Earth at any given time. So this young earth science prediction, based on our understanding of the global flood, confidentally and without fear of falsification predicts a maximum volume, based on the amount of vegetation that could have been growing at one time on the antideluvian Earth. And see store.rsr.org!
* Celebrity Engineer Bryan Nickel Calls In: Fresh off his five-part series Answering the HPT Heat Objections, Bryan calls in to compliment us on our Faith on the Edgeinterview from two weeks ago and points out why tens of thousands of engineers (including him and Fred Williams) would have to be in on the world's biggest hoax (bigger even than the Russian Hoax), if certain wild cosmology claims were true. And see store.rsr.org!
* General Pattern of Fossil Progression Matches Flood Burial: (This observation first appeared on our flood rsr.org/evidence page.) The general pattern of fossil progression is not that of an evolutionary development, as evidence by examples like the lack of backbone evolution, the whale "intermediaries" catastrophe, the missing transitionals, etc. Rather, the global pattern of buried fossils follows that of a flood burying creatures in the order of their vulnerability based on their own mobility and their habitat, from riverbeds, lakebeds, and seabeds, to the highlands. Initially, in small region by small region in what we call...
- Precambrian layers, the lower-terrain bottom-dwelling worms, algae, bacteria, trilobites, etc., suffocated when the Flood disturbed their habitat. Then, the in-rushing floodwater sediments buried the...
- Paleozoic Cambrian layer's bottom-dwelling hallucigenia, wiwaxia, etc., and they're somewhat more mobile trilobites, canadaspis, crustaceans and other arthropods including shrimp and lobseters, horseshoe crabs and scorpions. The...
- Paleozoic Ordovician to Devonian to Permian layers hold the vast cemeteries of the fishes with the Devonian layers revealing the first horestail wetlands plants and liverworts (which also grew on wet rocks). And rising through the strata layers, the turbulence and sediment finally overcame the stronger rays and sharks. Then the...
- Mesozoic Triassic layers saw the marine depopulation of the "Permian" extinction during which 90% of marine creatures died in a "relatively" short timeperiod, along with beginning burial of the ichthyosaurs, the weaker plesiosaurs, and the smaller mammals...
- Mesozoic Jurassic and Cretaceous layers buried the stronger swimmers like dolphins and mosasaurs, and the amphibians like toads and frogs that lived near low-lying shorelines. As sediments began to cover habitats of increasing elevation, flowering plants and grasses were buried, and a hierarchy of animals with increasing ability to flee such as reptiles, including the dinosaurs, and the mammals. (Remember, 434 mammal species have been excavated from dinosaur layers and, obviously, at least some mammals ate dinosaurs.) Birds of course, generally speaking, averted the floodwaters better than most other creatures.
While Real Science Radio's been busy with our Heat series on the global flood, Fred Williams has been noticing our street cred piling up. Dr. Brian Thomas gives us a shout out in an Acts & Factscover story on our dinosaur soft tissue spreadsheet. Tim Mahoney thanks RSR for helping to strengthen the Patterns of Evidence Exodus argument (hear audio from the film). Then Fred recalls that molecular biologist Matthew Cserhati (with CMI as of March 2019) concedes his "orfan gene" bet with Enyart acknowledging the research trend that now points toward the RSR prediction that far fewer "related, evolutionary" genes exist than single-genome orfan genes!
* Acts & Facts RSR Shout Out: Brian Thomas' great Acts & Facts cover story article exposes another rescue device in the evolutionist's hopes of saving deep time from dinosaur soft tissue. From ICR's March 2019 issue with RSR photoshopping Brian and an excerpt onto the truncated cover...
Real Science Radio host Bob Enyart interviews The Creation Guys Kyle Justice and Pat Roy about their latest hit, Faith on the Edge: Flat Earth Documentary. They talk to experts including:
- Apollo 16 astronaut Gen. Charlie Duke
- Astronomer Dr. Danny Faulkner
- Hebrew professor (from Christopher Cone's Calvary University!) Dr. Steven Boyd, and
- Victor Brewer, Aerial Image Solutions.
Some of the highlights:
- the recreation of the UK's famous Bedford Level experiment (now with accurate and predictable results)
- explaining why the Chicago skyline jumps up and down when photographed from across Lake Michigan (except for on cold days)
- watching a container ship sail toward Europe from the East Coast
- amazing astronomical observations in the southern hemisphere (including the Sun never setting!)
- the launch of a weather balloon to conduct a breakthrough experiment.
Faith on the Edge made an RSR staffer say, "I've got to buy this for my grandkids!). The guys also present the flat earthers' claim that they take the Bible literally, but of course, not for any of the verses that contradict their syndrome, such as that God "hangs the Earth upon nothing" and "from the rising of the sun".
Have you noticed that the "man in the moon"
is upside down in the southern hemisphere?
See for yourself! Compared to viewing it from the northern hemisphere, the Moon appears upside down in the southern hemisphere, which is a simple cure for the flat earth syndrome:
Real Science Radio's Bob Enyart and mechanical engineer Bryan Nickle conclude their "Heat" series answering the criticism that the global flood events described by Dr. Walt Brown's Hydroplate Theory would melt the Earth's crust. The guys have been addressing four critics, Glen Kuban and Tony Reed, and young-earthers Danny Faulkner and John Baumgardner, listing their combined twenty arguments claiming the HPT would boil the oceans, cook the atmosphere, and melt the crust. Bryan and Bob complete working off their list of a dozen factors used to evaluate the heat transfer of the HPT including that expanding gas cools rapidly, the behavior of directed energy, the significance of boundary conditions, the role and behavior of supercritical water, and the adiabatic (heat-neutral) fusion by Z-pinch of light and heavy elements.
* Twenty Specific Criticisms: The critic's name links to his criticism:
Glen Kuban: From the anti-creationist website called paleo.cc, argues that:
1. The release of pressurized water in the eruption of the fountains would deposit tremendous heat energy on the surface of the earth.
2. The temperature of the flood waters coming up from below, being supercritical as Walt Brown indicates, were at least 1300oF.
3. The HPT suggests that half of today's ocean waters were once below the crust so that mixture of hot SCW with the surface waters would virtually boil the oceans.
4. The massive friction from the sliding, compressing, and thickening continents would produce tremendous heat.
5. The massive lava fields and other volcanic activity occurring within the short young-earth timeframe.
6. Much of the sub-crustal water that jettisoned into the atmosphere fell back to earth as scalding rain.
7. Dramatically accelerated nuclear decay would produce lethal heat (and radiation levels).
Tony Reed, from his YouTube channel Creationism taught me real science argues that:
8. The Supercritical water would have transferred its heat to the atmosphere and scald the planet in part because although air doesn't conduct heat well, “steam conducts heat very well”.
9. A temperature differential of a few degrees produces wind and the HPT has a 1,000-degree differential so that would easily generate powerful winds that would spread the heat throughout the atmosphere.
10. The depressurizing water and the superheated steam and air would become a blast wave.
11. Water and crustal debris ejected to the upper atmosphere will not be able to cool down from the main two methods of heat transfer, conduction and convection, but only from radiation which is less effective.
12. After the first 40 days when the fountains of the great deep are no longer launching debris into space nor even into the atmosphere, but the flood level continues to rise for another 110 days so all that superheated water is going directly into the surface waters.
Danny Faulkner, astronomer at Ken Ham's Answers in Genesis, in a CRSQ paper, argues that:
13. A back-of-the-envelope calculation shows that life couldn't survive the overheating of the troposphere that would occur even if only a tiny fraction of the HPT's kinetic energy transfers from the jets to the atmosphere.
14. Water moving at the speeds Walt Brown indicates for the fountains of the great deep [escape velocity is a minimum of 7 mps and up to 32 mps to launch the retrograde comets] would produce tremendous turbulence which would slow down at least a portion of the water jet and transfer kinetic energy to the atmosphere.
15. The leading edge [or the top] of the jet of water would transfer momentum to the atmosphere slowing the leading edge producing a a cascading effect slowing the water below it, and so on, causing the jet to spread horizontally.
16. The HPT posits fountains of water moving at Mach 150 such that Bernoulli’s equation indicates a very large pressure difference that will drive air into the jet and thermalize the kinetic energy.
John Baumgardner, the creation geophysicist formerly with Los Alamos Nat'l Laboratory, who went on to work for Henry Morris at ICR, argues that:
17. Regarding the HPT's origin of Earth's radioactivity, the extreme heat released from radioactive fission of super-heavy elements would melt the Earth's crust.
18. Using Dr. Brown's own energy estimate on the order of 1030J of kinetic energy carried by the fast neutrons from super-heavy element fission [see Bryan Nickel's video for context explaining that these neutrons produced the deuterium in comets and in today’s oceans] results in the kinetic energy of the fission fragments being estimated at 33 times that of these fast neutrons with the waste heat arising from these fission fragments alone being on the order of 1031J, enough to vaporize the entire granite crust hundreds of times over.
19. This waste heat from the fission of super-heavy elements would be dwarfed, by a factor of ten, by the much larger amount of waste heat released in the fusion process which the HPT proposes for the creation of the super-heavy elements.
20. Thermal energy on the order of 1030J dumped into the [then estimated at] 3/4-mile thick layer of water beneath the granitic crust, being ionized, would turn into a hot plasma and be so energetic it would blow off the Earth's crust.
* RSR to AIG, ICR, CMI, & CRS: ARD melts CPT. Dr. Walt Brown's creationist critics support a competing flood model called Catastrophic Plate Tectonics which has its own heat problem with CPT advocates admitting that accelerated nuclear decay would melt the crust. They appeal to miracles first, for the primary mechanisms of CPT, and secondly, to remove the heat. HPT, in contrast, observes physical processes that mitigate heat. Dr. Brown, incidentally, received his Ph.D. from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology's Heat Transfer division in their engineering department while working in MIT's heat transfer lab. This program is the eleventh installment in our ongoing Answers metaseries.
* Twelve Factors Help to Answer Flood Heat Objections: This list provides a roadmap for the listener to know where we will be headed over the next few episodes as we evaluate the heat consequences of the hydroplate theory.
1. Fluids cool rapidly as they expand (as in from below the crust to the surface) as well described by the Joule-Thomson effect.
2. Directed energy comprised of molecules with great momentum strongly resists change in direction.
3. Boundary conditions, rather than total amount of heat, determine how much will transfer, e.g., to the atmosphere or ocean.
4. Water that is supercritical (its state in the subterranean chamber, and unlike liquid water at Earth's surface) is highly compressible and at sixty miles deep it was compressed by pressure greater than 370,000 lbs per square inch.
5. Understanding the behavior of supercritical water helps to quantify the heat of the fountains including that as it enormously expands to reach the 15 ppsi at Earth's surface the formerly SCW has cooled enormously according to the slope defined by the Clausius-Clapeyron relation.
6. Outer space functions as a virtually infinite heat "sink" not only radiating away (cooling) the fountains most energetic water and debris but actually removing that ejecta.
7. Air is a great insulator [like home insulation and Thinsulate].
8. Z-pinch (crustal lightning making heavier nuclei including dangerous radioactive elements like uranium and thorium) is adiabatic (i.e, it doesn't produce heat) and is even called cold repacking.
9. Time, even the duration of weeks and months (or years and even a few centuries of aftermath effects), can allow for the dissipation of large quantities of energy that would otherwise melt more of the Earth than actually did melt.
10. Estimates provided by critics trying to falisfy the hydroplate theory can be shown to stop suddenly short of affirming the hydroplate.
11. Forty days and nights (especially the nights) of torrential rain brought massive quantities of supercooled hail down onto the Earth.
12. The specific heat of water (i.e., a watched pot never boils), also called its heat capacity, is higher than any other common substance enabling the surface waters to absorb a tremdous amount of energy while raising its temperature minimally.
* HPT Heat Series: These programs form the eleventh installment in our RSR Answers HPT Objections meta series.
- RSR Answers the Hydroplate Theory Heat Problemrsr.org/heat-1
- RSR Answers the HPT Atmosphere Heat Problem rsr.org/heat-2
- RSR Answers the HPT Atmosphere & Oceans Heat Problem rsr.org/heat-3
- RSR Answers the HPT Crust Heat Problem rsr.org/heat-4
- RSR Answers the HPT Heat Problem Crust Finalrsr.org/heat-5
* Heat Series Videos & Images: Intially, these spreadsheets are only screenshots but RSR plans to link them to dynamic spreadsheets which can be easily used by anyone to check these estimates.
Just averaging energy suggests, wrongly, that nearby snow would melt
Real Science Radio host Bob Enyart interviews intelligent design rock star Michael Behe, author of Darwin's Black Box, The Edge of Evolution, and in 2019, Darwin Devolves. After decades of spats with secularists including Jerry Coyne, PZ Myers, and Jack Horner, and full interviews/debates with Eugenie Scott, Michael Shermer, Lawrence Krauss, and the really fun interviews with Seattle's intelligent-design Discovery Institute scientists Rick Sternberg, Paul Nelson, Steve Meyer, Doug Axe, Ann Gauger, and more, finally Bob gets to talk to Dr. Behe! Today's broadcast describes the main argument in Devolves and Bob urges listeners to click on the graphic above and support Michael's work by purchasing (and reviewing on Amazon!) his latest book!
* Only Now Challenge: Bob asks Dr. Behe if he could respond to a challenge about his claim, heard often from the Intelligent Design movement, that only now with the advances in molecular biology can we refute Darwin's mechanisms. "Only in the past few decades could the adequacy of Darwin's proposed mechanism of evolution even begin to be tested" (Behe, 2019, p. 20).
Ultrasound Analogy: Bob compared this to those who claim that until we had 4D ultrasound we couldn't see that the fetus was a person, except that mom could always feel the baby kick and thousands of years of miscarriages removed any doubt. So the lack of technology does not absolve our ancestors of their guilt in killing unborn children.
Organism Analog: Likewise with the claim that only now can we evaluate Darwin's evolution mechanism, for before the electron microscope men could still see the organism itself. An animal, for example, at a macro scale, is a perfect analog for the molecular machinery within it. An animal's interdependent and interoperable complex systems of respiration, digestion, and reproduction, for example, all of which have to develop together, from a fetus onward and have to work together.
Extinction Level: Before identifying DNA, human beings could see that most major evolutionary challenges would be extinction level events. For long before you evolved good wings, you'd evolve bad legs and go extinct. Consider the claim of the non-directed arrival of reproductive organs (which is inherently absurd), or talk to a chiropractor (about the spinal column being pieced together part by part in a non-directed fashon) and hear him laugh. The claims that the skin, brain, heart, kidneys and liver, stomach and intestines, the lungs, arose by non-directed processes all result in extinction level events when they don't work effectively, and they have to work together with and be compatable with all an animal's other complex systems.
Pre-Darwin Sophistication: Gregor Mendel proposed genetic science (Mendelism) as Darwin was publishing Origins. And 70 years earlier an Italian researcher discovered echolocation in bats when they could still fly after he blinded them and the next year in 1794 a Swiss put wax in their ears and the bats crashed.
Overselling Could Excuse: So if we oversell our modern insights, we may unintentionally excuse our ancestors, like those who mistreated aborigines and blacks. For even without microscopes, the early Darwinists can not be excused and really should have known that such were not animals but human beings made in God's image. Microscopic complexity has an analog in the whole organism. So Darwin's proposal was rationally falsified from the start and today we merely build on that foundation.
* And Now, the Crust: Real Science Radio's Bob Enyart interviews Bryan Nickel, a mechanical engineer who's spent 18 years in the missile division of a U.S. aerospace firm, about the criticism that the global flood events described by Dr. Walt Brown's Hydroplate Theory would melt the Earth's crust. In this HPT heat series, the guys have been addressing four critics, Glen Kuban and Tony Reed, and young-earthers Danny Faulkner and John Baumgardner, listing their combined twenty arguments claiming the HPT would boil the oceans, cook the atmosphere, and melt the crust. Bryan and Bob are working off a list of a dozen factors used to evaluate the heat transfer of the HPT including that expanding gas cools rapidly, the behavior of directed energy, the significance of boundary conditions, the role and behavior of supercritical water, and the adiabatic (heat-neutral) fusion by Z-pinch of light and heavy elements.
* Twenty Specific Criticisms: The critic's name links to his criticism:
Glen Kuban: From the anti-creationist website called paleo.cc, argues that:
1. The release of pressurized water in the eruption of the fountains would deposit tremendous heat energy on the surface of the earth.
2. The temperature of the flood waters coming up from below, being supercritical as Walt Brown indicates, were at least 1300oF.
3. The HPT suggests that half of today's ocean waters were once below the crust so that mixture of hot SCW with the surface waters would virtually boil the oceans.
4. The massive friction from the sliding, compressing, and thickening continents would produce tremendous heat.
5. The massive lava fields and other volcanic activity occurring within the short young-earth timeframe.
6. Much of the sub-crustal water that jettisoned into the atmosphere fell back to earth as scalding rain.
7. Dramatically accelerated nuclear decay would produce lethal heat (and radiation levels).
Tony Reed, from his YouTube channel Creationism taught me real science argues that:
8. The Supercritical water would have transferred its heat to the atmosphere and scald the planet in part because although air doesn't conduct heat well, “steam conducts heat very well”.
9. A temperature differential of a few degrees produces wind and the HPT has a 1,000-degree differential so that would easily generate powerful winds that would spread the heat throughout the atmosphere.
10. The depressurizing water and the superheated steam and air would become a blast wave.
11. Water and crustal debris ejected to the upper atmosphere will not be able to cool down from the main two methods of heat transfer, conduction and convection, but only from radiation which is less effective.
12. After the first 40 days when the fountains of the great deep are no longer launching debris into space nor even into the atmosphere, but the flood level continues to rise for another 110 days so all that superheated water is going directly into the surface waters.
Danny Faulkner, astronomer at Ken Ham's Answers in Genesis, in a CRSQ paper, argues that:
13. A back-of-the-envelope calculation shows that life couldn't survive the overheating of the troposphere that would occur even if only a tiny fraction of the HPT's kinetic energy transfers from the jets to the atmosphere.
14. Water moving at the speeds Walt Brown indicates for the fountains of the great deep [escape velocity is a minimum of 7 mps and up to 32 mps to launch the retrograde comets] would produce tremendous turbulence which would slow down at least a portion of the water jet and transfer kinetic energy to the atmosphere.
15. The leading edge [or the top] of the jet of water would transfer momentum to the atmosphere slowing the leading edge producing a a cascading effect slowing the water below it, and so on, causing the jet to spread horizontally.
16. The HPT posits fountains of water moving at Mach 150 such that Bernoulli’s equation indicates a very large pressure difference that will drive air into the jet and thermalize the kinetic energy.
John Baumgardner, the creation geophysicist formerly with Los Alamos Nat'l Laboratory, who went on to work for Henry Morris at ICR, argues that:
17. Regarding the HPT's origin of Earth's radioactivity, the extreme heat released from radioactive fission of super-heavy elements would melt the Earth's crust.
18. Using Dr. Brown's own energy estimate on the order of 1030J of kinetic energy carried by the fast neutrons from super-heavy element fission [see Bryan Nickel's video for context explaining that these neutrons produced the deuterium in comets and in today’s oceans] results in the kinetic energy of the fission fragments being estimated at 33 times that of these fast neutrons with the waste heat arising from these fission fragments alone being on the order of 1031J, enough to vaporize the entire granite crust hundreds of times over.
19. This waste heat from the fission of super-heavy elements would be dwarfed, by a factor of ten, by the much larger amount of waste heat released in the fusion process which the HPT proposes for the creation of the super-heavy elements.
20. Thermal energy on the order of 1030J dumped into the [then estimated at] 3/4-mile thick layer of water beneath the granitic crust, being ionized, would turn into a hot plasma and be so energetic it would blow off the Earth's crust.
* RSR to AIG, ICR, CMI, & CRS: ARD melts CPT. Dr. Walt Brown's creationist critics support a competing flood model called Catastrophic Plate Tectonics which has its own heat problem with CPT advocates admitting that accelerated nuclear decay would melt the crust. They appeal to miracles first, for the primary mechanisms of CPT, and secondly, to remove the heat. HPT, in contrast, observes physical processes that mitigate heat. Dr. Brown, incidentally, received his Ph.D. from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology's Heat Transfer division in their engineering department while working in MIT's heat transfer lab. This program is the eleventh installment in our ongoing Answers metaseries.
* Twelve Factors Help to Answer Flood Heat Objections: This list provides a roadmap for the listener to know where we will be headed over the next few episodes as we evaluate the heat consequences of the hydroplate theory.
1. Fluids cool rapidly as they expand (as in from below the crust to the surface) as well described by the Joule-Thomson effect.
2. Directed energy comprised of molecules with great momentum strongly resists change in direction.
3. Boundary conditions, rather than total amount of heat, determine how much will transfer, e.g., to the atmosphere or ocean.
4. Water that is supercritical (its state in the subterranean chamber, and unlike liquid water at Earth's surface) is highly compressible and at sixty miles deep it was compressed by pressure greater than 370,000 lbs per square inch.
5. Understanding the behavior of supercritical water helps to quantify the heat of the fountains including that as it enormously expands to reach the 15 ppsi at Earth's surface the formerly SCW has cooled enormously according to the slope defined by the Clausius-Clapeyron relation.
6. Outer space functions as a virtually infinite heat "sink" not only radiating away (cooling) the fountains most energetic water and debris but actually removing that ejecta.
7. Air is a great insulator [like home insulation and Thinsulate].
8. Z-pinch (crustal lightning making heavier nuclei including dangerous radioactive elements like uranium and thorium) is adiabatic (i.e, it doesn't produce heat) and is even called cold repacking.
9. Time, even the duration of weeks and months (or years and even a few centuries of aftermath effects), can allow for the dissipation of large quantities of energy that would otherwise melt more of the Earth than actually did melt.
10. Estimates provided by critics trying to falisfy the hydroplate theory can be shown to stop suddenly short of affirming the hydroplate.
11. Forty days and nights (especially the nights) of torrential rain brought massive quantities of supercooled hail down onto the Earth.
12. The specific heat of water (i.e., a watched pot never boils), also called its heat capacity, is higher than any other common substance enabling the surface waters to absorb a tremdous amount of energy while raising its temperature minimally.
* HPT Heat Series: These programs form the eleventh installment in our RSR Answers HPT Objections meta series.
- RSR Answers the Hydroplate Theory Heat Problemrsr.org/heat-1
- RSR Answers the HPT Atmosphere Heat Problem rsr.org/heat-2
- RSR Answers the HPT Atmosphere & Oceans Heat Problem rsr.org/heat-3
- RSR Answers the HPT Crust Heat Problem rsr.org/heat-4
- RSR Answers the HPT Heat Problem Crust Finalrsr.org/heat-5
Do Christian colleges really teach evolution? Is that the exception or the rule? When they adopt the "day age" interpretation of the creation days, what biblical teachings do they quickly end up rejecting? (It's quite a sad list!) Real Science Radio host Bob Enyart interviews Dr.
* Heat in the Atmosphere & Oceans: [Check back on April 19th for more embedded videos & graphics.] Enyart continues his interview Bryan Nickel, a mechanical engineer who's spent 18 years in the missile division of a U.S. aerospace firm, about the criticism that Dr. Walt Brown's Hydroplate Theory would bring catastrophic heat to the Earth's surface during the global flood. The guys address four critics, anti-creationists Glen Kuban and Tony Reed, and fellow young-earthers Danny Faulkner and John Baumgardner, listing their combined twenty arguments claiming the HPT would boil the oceans, cook the atmosphere, and melt the crust. Then Bryan and Bob list a dozen factors they will employ over the next few programs to evaluate the heat transfer of the HPT including that expanding gas cools rapidly, the behavior of directed energy, the significance of boundary conditions, the role and behavior of supercritical water, and the nearly heat-neutral fusion of heavy elements. Walt's creationist critics support a competing flood model called Catastrophic Plate Tectonics which has its own heat problem with CPT advocates admitting that accelerated nuclear decay would melt the crust and appealing to a miracle as a solution for removing that heat. HPT, in contrast, observes physical processes that mitigate heat. Dr. Brown, incidentally, received his Ph.D. from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology's Heat Transfer division in their engineering department while working in MIT's heat transfer lab.
* Twenty Specific Criticisms: The critic's name links to his criticism:
Glen Kuban: From the anti-creationist website called paleo.cc, argues that:
1. The release of pressurized water in the eruption of the fountains would deposit tremendous heat energy on the surface of the earth.
2. The temperature of the flood waters coming up from below, being supercritical as Walt Brown indicates, were at least 1300oF.
3. The HPT suggests that half of today's ocean waters were once below the crust so that mixture of hot SCW with the surface waters would virtually boil the oceans.
4. The massive friction from the sliding, compressing, and thickening continents would produce tremendous heat.
5. The massive lava fields and other volcanic activity occurring within the short young-earth timeframe.
6. Much of the sub-crustal water that jettisoned into the atmosphere fell back to earth as scalding rain.
7. Dramatically accelerated nuclear decay would produce lethal heat (and radiation levels).
Tony Reed, from his YouTube channel Creationism taught me real science argues that:
8. The Supercritical water would have transferred its heat to the atmosphere and scald the planet in part because although air doesn't conduct heat well, “steam conducts heat very well”.
9. A temperature differential of a few degrees produces wind and the HPT has a 1,000-degree differential so that would easily generate powerful winds that would spread the heat throughout the atmosphere.
10. The depressurizing water and the superheated steam and air would become a blast wave.
11. Water and crustal debris ejected to the upper atmosphere will not be able to cool down from the main two methods of heat transfer, conduction and convection, but only from radiation which is less effective.
12. After the first 40 days when the fountains of the great deep are no longer launching debris into space nor even into the atmosphere, but the flood level continues to rise for another 110 days so all that superheated water is going directly into the surface waters.
Danny Faulkner, astronomer at Ken Ham's Answers in Genesis, in a CRSQ paper, argues that:
13. A back-of-the-envelope calculation shows that life couldn't survive the overheating of the troposphere that would occur even if only a tiny fraction of the HPT's kinetic energy transfers from the jets to the atmosphere.
14. Water moving at the speeds Walt Brown indicates for the fountains of the great deep [escape velocity is a minimum of 7 mps and up to 32 mps to launch the retrograde comets] would produce tremendous turbulence which would slow down at least a portion of the water jet and transfer kinetic energy to the atmosphere.
15. The leading edge [or the top] of the jet of water would transfer momentum to the atmosphere slowing the leading edge producing a a cascading effect slowing the water below it, and so on, causing the jet to spread horizontally.
16. The HPT posits fountains of water moving at Mach 150 such that Bernoulli’s equation indicates a very large pressure difference that will drive air into the jet and thermalize the kinetic energy.
John Baumgardner, the creation geophysicist formerly with Los Alamos Nat'l Laboratory, who went on to work for Henry Morris at ICR, argues that:
17. Regarding the HPT's origin of Earth's radioactivity, the extreme heat released from radioactive fission of super-heavy elements would melt the Earth's crust.
18. Using Dr. Brown's own energy estimate on the order of 1030J of kinetic energy carried by the fast neutrons from super-heavy element fission [see Bryan Nickel's video for context explaining that these neutrons produced the deuterium in comets and in today’s oceans] results in the kinetic energy of the fission fragments being estimated at 33 times that of these fast neutrons with the waste heat arising from these fission fragments alone being on the order of 1031J, enough to vaporize the entire granite crust hundreds of times over.
19. This waste heat from the fission of super-heavy elements would be dwarfed, by a factor of ten, by the much larger amount of waste heat released in the fusion process which the HPT proposes for the creation of the super-heavy elements.
20. Thermal energy on the order of 1030J dumped into the [then estimated at] 3/4-mile thick layer of water beneath the granitic crust, being ionized, would turn into a hot plasma and be so energetic it would blow off the Earth's crust.
* RSR to AIG, ICR, CMI, & CRS: ARD melts CPT. Dr. Walt Brown's creationist critics support a competing flood model called Catastrophic Plate Tectonics which has its own heat problem with CPT advocates admitting that accelerated nuclear decay would melt the crust. They appeal to miracles first, for the primary mechanisms of CPT, and secondly, to remove the heat. HPT, in contrast, observes physical processes that mitigate heat. Dr. Brown, incidentally, received his Ph.D. from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology's Heat Transfer division in their engineering department while working in MIT's heat transfer lab. This program is the eleventh installment in our ongoing Answers metaseries.
* Twelve Factors Help to Answer Flood Heat Objections: This list provides a roadmap for the listener to know where we will be headed over the next few episodes as we evaluate the heat consequences of the hydroplate theory.
1. Fluids cool rapidly as they expand (as in from below the crust to the surface) as well described by the Joule-Thomson effect.
2. Directed energy comprised of molecules with great momentum strongly resists change in direction.
3. Boundary conditions, rather than total amount of heat, determine how much will transfer, e.g., to the atmosphere or ocean.
4. Water that is supercritical (its state in the subterranean chamber, and unlike liquid water at Earth's surface) is highly compressible and at sixty miles deep it was compressed by pressure greater than 370,000 lbs per square inch.
5. Understanding the behavior of supercritical water helps to quantify the heat of the fountains including that as it enormously expands to reach the 15 ppsi at Earth's surface the formerly SCW has cooled enormously according to the slope defined by the Clausius-Clapeyron relation.
6. Outer space functions as a virtually infinite heat "sink" not only radiating away (cooling) the fountains most energetic water and debris but actually removing that ejecta.
7. Air is a great insulator [like home insulation and Thinsulate].
8. Z-pinch (crustal lightning making heavier nuclei including dangerous radioactive elements like uranium and thorium) is adiabatic (i.e, it doesn't produce heat) and is even called cold repacking.
9. Time, even the duration of weeks and months (or years and even a few centuries of aftermath effects), can allow for the dissipation of large quantities of energy that would otherwise melt more of the Earth than actually did melt.
11. Forty days and nights (especially the nights) of torrential rain brought massive quantities of supercooled hail down onto the Earth.
12. The specific heat of water (i.e., a watched pot never boils), also called its heat capacity, is higher than any other common substance enabling the surface waters to absorb a tremdous amount of energy while raising its temperature minimally.
* HPT Heat Series: These programs form the eleventh installment in our RSR Answers HPT Objections meta series.
- RSR Answers the Hydroplate Theory Heat Problemrsr.org/heat-1
- RSR Answers the HPT Atmosphere Heat Problem rsr.org/heat-2
- RSR Answers the HPT Atmosphere & Oceans Heat Problem rsr.org/heat-3
- RSR Answers the HPT Crust Heat Problem rsr.org/heat-4
- RSR Answers the HPT Heat Problem Crust Finalrsr.org/heat-5
* Heat Series Videos & Images:
Just averaging energy suggests, wrongly, that nearby snow would melt
* The Missile Division Engineer and the Critics: Enyart interviews Bryan Nickel, a mechanical engineer who's spent 18 years in the missile division of a U.S. aerospace firm, about the criticism that Dr. Walt Brown's Hydroplate Theory would bring catastrophic heat to the Earth's surface during the global flood. The guys address four critics, anti-creationists Glen Kuban and Tony Reed, and fellow young-earthers Danny Faulkner and John Baumgardner.
* RSR to AIG, ICR, CMI, & CRS: ARD melts CPT. Really. The big four groups and their scientists who make up Walt Brown's leading creationist critics mostly support a competing flood model called Catastrophic Plate Tectonics. CPT has its own heat problem with advocates admitting that accelerated radioactive decay would melt the crust and appealing to a miracle as a solution for removing that heat. HPT, in contrast, observes physical processes that remove heat.
* Bio: Dr. Walt Brown received his Ph.D. from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology's Heat Transfer division in their engineering department while working in MIT's heat transfer lab.
* The Twenty Criticisms: See last week's list of 20 heat criticisms lodged claiming that the events described by Walt Brown's Hydroplate Theory would boil the oceans, cook the atmosphere, and melt the crust.
* The Dozen Physics Observations: Bryan and Bob last week then reviewed a list of a 12 physics factors that address the 20 criticisms and on today's program they begin applying those laws of physics beginning with the criticisms that the HPT theory events would overheat the atmosphere. For example, evaluating the heat transfer of the HPT, includes recognizing that a rapidly expanding fluid (liquid, gas, or supercritical water) cools extremely rapidly. On today's program the guys also note the behavior of directed energy and the significance of boundary conditions. Later in this series, they will address that nuclear fusion (a process involved in understanding the origin of Earth's radioactivity) is adiabatic (i.e., heat neutral) when looked at from the perspective of fusing the periodic table's lighter and heavier elements (in the general proportions that they are found in Earth's crust).
* HPT Heat Series: These programs form the eleventh installment in our RSR Answers HPT Objections meta series.
- RSR Answers the Hydroplate Theory Heat Problemrsr.org/heat-1
- RSR Answers the HPT Atmosphere Heat Problem rsr.org/heat-2
- RSR Answers the HPT Atmosphere & Oceans Heat Problem rsr.org/heat-3
- RSR Answers the HPT Crust Heat Problem rsr.org/heat-4
- RSR Answers the HPT Heat Problem Crust Finalrsr.org/heat-5
* The Hydroplate Theory Special: You may want to purchase this set of resources if...
- You'd like to read the best creation book ever written and watch its accompanying videos
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* The RSR Repository: For all things HPT just click on over to rsr.org/hpt.
* Heat Series Images, Spreadsheets, & Videos: A click on this Google Docs screenshot brings you to our draft version of our HPT Temperatures of the Fountains spreadsheet.
Estimating the fountains temps
- Adding heat to supercritical water...
- Regarding this stored energy in supercritical water...
- Regarding temperatures under the crust and hypersonic speeds of the fountain...
- Explanation/Example of directed energy and rapid expansion of gases...
- Inertia of atmosphere and how entrained material would act to cool and further protect life within...
* Sunday Update -- Jason Jones Spoke at DBC Today: Thanks Jason, and what a great promo you just put together on Friday for Unplanned...
Dr. Anderson co-authored a triceratops soft tissue paper and he challenges (the amazing) Dr. Mary Schweitzer (whom RSR amiably refers to as the Iron Maiden) in her claim that biological iron has the ability to preserve dinosaur biological material for tens of millions of years. (Hear about that on today's show and more at rsr.org/ms.)
* You may be interested in:
* General Pattern of Fossil Progression Matches Flood Burial: (This observation first appeared on our flood 
* Twenty Specific Criticisms: The critic's name links to his criticism:
