* Interview-Based Review of Flood Models: Jane Albright continues her report on the 16 interviews she conducted with creation scientists and leaders for her article series exploring the leading flood models, the science, the Scripture, and the controversy. In today's Real Science Radio broadcast, Bob Enyart and Albright, who is a working professional engineer formerly with the U.S. Navy nuclear engineering program, discuss Catastrophic Plate Tectonics (CPT), the flood model based on the secular Plate Tectonics model and affirmed by the leading creation groups. Virtually all observers (including of course creationists), acknowledge that Earth's crustal plates move in relation to one another. Specifically, however, Plate Tectonics (PT) is the model based on seafloor spreading and subduction. So the PT model stands or falls (as does CPT) based upon whether those two claimed mechanisms are actual.
* RSR's Albright Broadcast Series: Bob and Jane discuss her article series on these three programs:
- Pt. 1: The Vapor Canopy and the Hydroplate Theory (covering Albright's first two articles)
- Pt. 2: Catastrophic Plate Tectonics (this program, Albright's 3rd article)
- Pt. 3: The Controversy over VCT, CPT, & the HPT (Albright's 4th article)
* Sediments vs. CPT: Earth's crust contains about 100 million cubic miles of sediments. The HPT very naturally accounts for the eroision of that rock from the underground chamber and along the cliff sides of the globe-encircling crack. On the other hand, Catastrophic Plate Tectonics cannot explain how all that rock was eroded. For example:
Click on that screenshot to watch the sediments segment from RSR's HPT video. Then watch as you see the kind of extraterrestrial intervention that CPT's lead author acknowledges that his model requires to erode the world's sediments:
Recognizing the problem's severity, in 2013 at the International Conference on Creationism the lead author of Catastrophic Plate Tectonics, unbiblically and unreasonably "proposed that six near encounters with a moon-sized body temporarily captured by the earth… provide[d] the [energy] for the water motions and the resulting erosion, sediment transport and deposition processes."
And what for? As with CPT's supernatural accelerated radioactive decay, and CPT's supernatural erosion of sediments, why? Such physical features of the Earth, decay and erosion, were obviously not part of the perfection of the creation week. And yet they also were not necessary in a CPT-world to judge the Earth by water. Further, by CPT, accelerated radioactive decay requires another supernatural intervention, to remove the massive amount of heat generated. CPT doesn't add water to flood the Earth, for it claims (of all things) that the fountains of the deep were MAGMA! And it claims that the water that flooded the Earth was already on the surface, in the oceans! For Dr. John Baumgardener responding to questions that arose during the Flood Science Review, answered the question, "Is it possible that the water which emerged from the 'fountains of the great deep' was from a subterranean source?" as follows:
In this CPT framework the steam in these spectacular fountain-like jets as well as the water that becomes entrained in the fringes of the jets and lofted high into the atmosphere is ocean water.
So CPT doesn't add water, but regarding supernatural interventions not implied in the Bible, it sure does add quite a few miracles.
* Has CPT Been Peer-Reviewed?: No. CPT has not been peer reviewed. You cannot peer-review miracles. Miracles of convenience, not implied in Scripture, can solve any physics problem of any theory that otherwise claims to be scientific. Any theory relying on miracles cannot actually be peer reviewed. Why not? Because miracles can solve any physical problem and they can likewise be used to equally "validate" opposing theories. So peer review of CPT in it's current form (as of 2020) is meaningless. Therefore, as you peruse the following list of CPT miracles, ask yourself, might this "peer review" indicate nothing more than extreme bias among creationists? The "peer-reviewers" openly and uncritically accepted various miracles for no other reason than to answser the physical impossibilities of CPT. By "reviewing" these ad-hoc supernatural components of the sped-up plate tectonics model, the reviewers were embracing a secular superstar (for a geophysicist, anyway) John Baumgardner and helping to bring his prestigious credentials into the movement. And how about Dr. Walt Brown's Hydroplate Theory peer review? A long-standing criticism of HPT is that it has not been peer reviewed in scientific creation journals. Ironically, one of the most extraordinary and unique aspects of Dr. Brown's HPT, that trans-Neptunian objects originated recently in the inner solar system, has been peer reviewed in one of the world's first and most prestigious astronomy journals, the Monthly Notices of the Royal Astronomical Society. (Hear about this at rsr.org/TNOs.) Real Science Radio plans to broadcast in December 2020, Lord-willing, a program addressing HPT, CPT, and peer review. Until then, at rsr.org/TNOs#hpt-peer-review you can see a brief response to the criticism, which, perhaps surprisingly, involves the Vapor Canopy Theory, radioactivity, and plagiarism.
* CPT Claims of Miracles Not Implied in Scripture: God created and has supernaturally intervened. But that does not justify appealing to miracles to solve a scientific model's problems. Repeated appeals to miracles by the leading authors and supporters of Catastrophic Plate Tectonics overtly demonstrate its failure to explain the evidence. They require supernatural intervention for CPT's primary mechanisms, to erode sediments (see just above), and to remove it's catastrophic heat.
- CPT Miracle Claim #1: "The physical laws were somehow altered by God to cause ['plate tectonics and the flood'] to unfold..." Baumgardner, 1990, The Imperative of Non-Stationary Natural Law in Relation to Noah's Flood, CRSQ pp. 98-100
- CPT Miracle Claim #2: Edges of supercontinent get 720oF colder so they'd sink into the mantle to get catastrophic plate tectonics going. "An initial temperature perturbation is required to initiate motions within the spherical shell domain that represents the earth’s mantle. For this, a temperature perturbation of -400 K to a depth of a few hundred kilometers is introduced around most of the perimeter of the supercontinent.” Baumgardner, 2002, Journal of Creation (see the two papers published together, Catastrophic plate tectonics: the geophysical context of the Genesis Flood and A constructive quest for truth).
- CPT Miracle Claim #3: Earth's mantle gets mushier or firmer. "…the mantle’s viscosity at [the time of the flood] was lower than at present to permit rapid sinking of the lithosphere into the mantle...” Baumgardner, 1990, Proceedings of the Second Int'l Conference on Creationism (3-D finite element simulation of the global tectonic changes accompanying Noah's flood)
- CPT Miracle Claim #4: God brought a second moon to erode Earth's sediments as "six near encounters with a moon-sized body temporarily captured by the earth can plausibly account for" Earth's sediments. Baumgardner, 2013, Explaining the continental fossil-bearing sediment record in terms of the Genesis flood: Insights from numerical modeling of erosion, sediment transport, and deposition processes on a global scale, 7th ICC. [In 2016, instead of publishing a retraction, Dr. Baumgardner published a "revision" of his paper, though we believe with an equally unworkable explanation for Earth's massive sediments.]
- CPT Miracle Claim #5: God supernaturally accelerated nuclear decay as described in the RATE Project. (While CPT flood mechanics do not require accelerated nuclear decay, the miraculous speeding up of nuclear decay is part of their overall model.)
- CPT Miracle Claim #6: God removed the heat of accelerated radioactive decay. "The Heat Problem: … God was directly involved in all of these events, so it is possible that He employed some supernatural process which does not occur today or cannot be detected." Vardiman, Austin, Baumgardner, et al., 2005, Radioisotopes and the Age of the Earth, Vol. II, ICR, pp. 761-763 (See RSR's flood video for one proposed method of this supernatural heat removal)
- The Anti-Miracle: (See the two-minute segment on this just below. Clicking play begins the video at 2:46:15.) In Pittsburgh in 2013 the CPT lead author John Baumgardner and advocate Dr. Mark Horstemeyer claimed in front of a plenary audience at the International Conference on Creationism, and in direct opposition to Genesis, that the Moon must have been created before Day 4.
Thankfully, Answers in Genesis' Dr. Danny Faulkner stood up to respectfully but firmly rebuke Dr. Baumgardner. See the video for more information. The secular plate tectonics model was the intellectual framework in which geophysicist Baumgardner spent years earning his Ph.D. He modeled his creationist theory, catastropic plate tectonics, on the secular theory in a way similar, though not as egregious, to basing theistic evolution on the secular theory of evolution. At RSR we believe that Dr. Baumgardner's theistic plate tectonics theory is flawed for the same fundamental reason that theistic evolution is flawed, and like theistic evolution, CPT too can be falisfied in innumerable ways including biblically, because it's specifics, unlike the HPT, are not based on Scripture (see chart, below).
* CPT Miracle Retractions: Miracle by miracle, if any of the creation groups or lead CPT authors issue a retraction of any of the miracles used over a quarter century to introduce and to sustain their support for that unscientific model, we will link to those retractions right here. (rsr.org/cpt#miracle-retractions)
- Retracted Miracle #1: pending link
- Retracted Miracle #2: pending link
- Retracted Miracle #3: pending link
- Retracted Miracle #4: "revision"
- Retracted Miracle #5: pending link
We are aware of no explicit retractions as of our latest update on Dec 1, 2020 although the Miracle #4 "revision" does eliminate the "second moon", replacing it with a proposal that we believe is equally inadequate at explaining the distribution, and especially the source, of Earth's massive sedimentary deposits.
* Many Geologists are Rejecting Plate Tectonics: See this example list at rsr.org/plate-tectonics#opponents. There is tremendous observational evidence in the vicinity of the ocean trenches that contradicts the subduction claims of plate tectonics. The work of marine geology expert Chris Smoot has been summarized by RSR our friend and textbook author Ellen McHenry.
* Correcting the Tropical Polar Motivation for Plate Tectonics: Consider also ICR's Larry Vardiman in 1984 observed that, "The evidence of [previously] warm polar regions is so extensive that the theory of continental drift was developed by evolutionary geologists to help explain how tropical fossil material can be accounted for at the poles [i.e., in the polar regions]." Consider though the biblical explanation for so much buried vegetation in the polar regions: Earth's Big Roll. That is the "biblical" explanation because the Bible teaches (what young earth creationists and flood geologists all affirm), that the world's major mountain ranges were raised up in a day! When that happened, because of the planet's extreme angular momentum, these new mountain ranges would require a re-orienting of the rotation of the globe so that it would come back into equilibrium. Consider, if the Himilayans rose up nearer to the north pole, then the Earth's rotation would swing them down, 30 degrees or so, closer to the equator. (This also explains a geological oddity, the virtually straight-line 3,000 mile-long crack in the Earth's crust called 90 East Ridge, discovered below the Indian Ocean and pointing toward the Himalayas. See this explained in Walt Brown's Figure 82, Earth's Big Roll and in Bryan Nickel's HPT Tutorial on DVD & Blu-ray (great for sharing) and online:
* The CPT Model Completely Lacks Unique Biblical Support: For the 2011 Flood Science Review project, model authors were asked to present any scriptural support for their particular flood theory. The chart below shows the results obtained from model authors Walt Brown and John Baumgardner and vapor canopy theory proponent Dr. Larry Vardiman. See the spreadsheet behind this screenshot at Bible Material Uniquely Supporting Various Flood Models (aka Flood Models & Bible Verses ) and see this also as presented in the queued up video just below.
* The CPT Model Has Minimal Explanatory Power: The following chart illustrates the breadth of the explanatory power of the hydroplate theory as compared to catastrophic plate tectonics. See the spreadsheet behind this screenshot at Physical Features Requiring Explanation and Flood Models (aka Flood Models & Features to Explain). And see this also in RSR's flood video beginning at 3:06:45.
* Lava Water Swim & CPT. As reported at rsr.org/hotspots, CPT suggests that massive quantities of magma breaking out onto the ocean floor would produce supersonic steam jets shooting into the upper atmosphere. This video doesn't show "massive quantities" of magma but, nonetheless, we think it's a reminder of a major feature of the model that cannot be successfully simulated as it is one of CPT's many falsehoods...
Warning: Aside from the other obvious dangers with swimming where lava enters the sea, people have been killed by the steam produced, which geologists call laze, which contains hydrocloric acid and fine particles of volcanic glass.
* Popularity: If you Google in quotes, "Catastrophic Plate Tectonics" the search engine identifies 17,500 pages, but if you Google "hydroplate theory", you get 55,000 pages. Clearly Dr. Brown's fountains-of-the-great-deep flood model has caught the attention of rank-and-file creationists!
* Hear, See, and Read RSR's Related Resources:
- Fountains of MAGMA (?) of the Great Deep. Huh?
- Deep Magma Can't Rise: The Crossover Depth!
- Hotspot Hypothesis (for Hawaii, etc.) Widely Discredited
- Plate Tectonics: Subduction Doesn't Happen
- Plate Tectonics: Convection Doesn't Happen
- Catastrophic Plate Tectonics Miracles (just above)
- rsr.org/catastrophic-plate-tectonics (this show page)
- RSR Answers Hydroplate Theory Objections
- RSR Answers Baumgardner on Geometry, Crust, Heat, & Voltage
- Bible verses uniquely supporting various flood models (also above)
- Physical features crying out for explanation (also above).
* HPT Objections from the CPT Lead Author: Included in our ongoing rsr.org/answers series are these programs (some renamed here for clarity).
- Compressing Granite Produces Voltages addressing John Baumgardner's HPT criticism that observations do not show that compressing granite produces voltages (with RSR presenting exactly such findings, significantly, in the literature)
- Secular QuakeFinder Official on Electromagnetics Tom Bleier on electromagnetic earthquake forecasting (interview conducted by RSR toward further answering geophysicist Baumgardner)
- Objections to HPT's Origin of Radioactivity answered by Joshua Spencer, Ph.D. in nuclear engineering answering Dr. Baumgardner
- Nuclear Engineer HPT Supporter on Objections and CPT Miracles Dr. Spencer, professionally employed in his field, exposing CPT's reliance on miracles (as listed above, and as he and Bob Enyart defend the hydroplate theory)
- Answering the "Geometry Problem" HPT expert and graduate of (and then instructor for) the U.S. Naval Nuclear Power Program, Pastor Kevin Lea, answers the objection from Dr. Baumgardner regarding the hydroplate theory increasing over time its estimate of the thickness of the crust (from 10 kilometers in the first seven editions, to 10 miles in the 8th edition, to approximately 60 miles in the 9th edition)
- The "Pacific Crust" Objection answered by Lea (with a July 2020 update from Fred Williams and Bob Enyart at rsr.org/zealandia)
- Creation Groups' Opposition to Brown addressed by professional engineer Jane Albright including regarding Dr. Baumgardner
- The HPT Heat Problem objections from Dr. Baumgardner and others answered by HPT expert and mechanical engineer Bryan Nickel.
Dear Bob and Fred and the RSR Crew,
The kinds of scientific discoveries that you guys report, much of it published in leading science journals that support young-earth creation, is the only thing that I have found that actually reaches the young kids that I work with. In the 7th grade, these boys and girls go through the Lutheran confirmation process. Afterward, I quiz them. They have learned almost nothing. More significant though is that the entire experience is meaningless to them. It's not that it has no meaning. It's worse than that. To them it is meaningless. The only way that I have found to break through to them about the importance of God's Word and the Gospel of Jesus Christ is with the amazing scientific discoveries that Real Science Radio shares that demonstrate that God is indeed our Creator! Thank you so very much for your work! And may God bless your continued outreach!
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Lutheran Sunday School Teacher
* Help with RSR Research? At Real Science Radio, we always have way more research than we have the time or money to accomplish. You can help with one or both if you'd like to! For example, you can consider purchasing a book from our Amazon.com Research Wish List. Watch out though! They're not inexpensive. You could either read the book yourself to prepare a report (to send off to us at Bob@rsr.org of your assessment of what information may be helpful in our apologetics outreach) or you can just let Amazon deliver the book right to us (where our crack staff, namely Bob or Doug, will give the book an initial read to evaluate its information). So, if you can, please help! And whether you can or not, thanks and may God continue to bless you!
* Today's Resource: For online resources, go to rsr.org/flood. But to order RSR's #1 best-selling video, just click...
The Global Flood and the Hydroplate Theory
Blu-ray, 2-DVD Set, Stream or HD Download!
Real Science Radio co-host Bob Enyart presents the scientific evidence for Dr. Walt Brown’s model of the global flood, along with the relevant biblical material. Enyart also discusses Brown's opponents and contrasts both the vapor canopy and catastrophic plate tectonics with the hydroplate theory.
DVD Vol. 1
1. Walt Brown, Creation Leaders, and Scripture
2. Hydroplate Theory & Scientific Evidence
DVD Vol. 2
3. Hydroplates vs. Plate Tectonics
Bonus: Origin of Earth's Radioactivity
The Blu-ray disc contains all parts on one disc. And for now, save $10 with our special introductory pricing which discounts the $50 retail price to $39.99!
* Get the Best Creation Science Book Ever Written: Just click on the cover of the book to purchase it from RSR (which also helps us to continue broadcasting)...
See also all of Real Science Radio's HPT resources collected over at rsr.org/global-flood.
* BEL YouTube Channel: Here's a small request. If you'd like us to reach our next small goal of 300,000 views, please click this link to watch a video, maybe one of our RSR science videos, on our BEL YouTube channel