* Bob Enyart in Round Two with Aron Ra: Discussing YouTube videos #1 and #3 of the series titled, The Foundational Falsehoods of Creation, Bob continues his discussion with one of the web's leading anti-creationists, Aron Ra.
* See Also: Our RSR Aron Ra page and our six-round RSR written debate with Aron Ra.
* Millions of Mammoths Doubted by Aron: In today's show, Aron Ra doubted Bob's recollection that there is evidence of at least a million mammoths that were buried high in the northern hemisphere. So here is the documentation that Bob promised:
"Nikolai Vereshchagin, Chairman of the Russian Academy of Science’s Committee for the Study of Mammoths, estimated that more than half a million tons of mammoth tusks were buried along a 600-mile stretch of the Arctic coast. Because the typical tusk weighs 100 pounds, this implies that about 5 million mammoths lived in this small region." Walt Brown referencing John Massey Stewart, “Frozen Mammoths from Siberia Bring the Ice Ages to Vivid Life,” Smithsonian, 1977, p. 68 [A recent 150-pound, 7-foot tusk was found 110 miles north of the Arctic Circle where, today, for five months of the year the high temperature is lower than freezing, and for six months of the year the low is less than 0 degrees F, but during the ice age would have been even much colder!]
"There is an estimate of 150 million mammoth remains in Russia's Siberian permafrost, which covers a vast sparsely inhabited area." Retrieved from Wikipedia on 12-9-2011 referencing a 2008 New York Times article
[Update: Within 24 hours of posting this source, a Wikipedia editor removed that reference (as happens, as with our KGOV.com/math show), so here's the original 2008 NY Times article, Trade in mammoth ivory... flourishes.]
* Post-Show Update: More Mammoth Material -- With the current efforts to clone mammoths, our Real Science Radio program at rsr.org/mammoths is especially interesting where you can hear:
That the Earth rolled on its axis explains why we find remains of millions of mammoths (and horses, rhinos, etc.) in the arctic circle where they could not live because while each animal requires many gallons of liquid water and more than a hundred pounds of vegetation per day, the arctic has frozen surface water and gets almost no sunlight through it's long winter, when its scant vegetation is then completely dormant. And of course, woolly mammoths had no wool. This RSR program also covers explains why the mammoths are buried in rock ice and muck in the arctic circle with many creatures freezing suddenly in ice colder than 150 degrees below zero preserving some mammoths with temperate climate vegetation in their stomachs! And hear an amazing prediction from Walt Brown that beneath upright mammoths, there will be no fossils, strata, coal seams, nor limestone! Why not? Because these mammoths, many frozen while still standing, were killed at the very beginning stages of the global flood and all those features are a result of that flood!
* Here's How the Written Debate with Aron Presents This, On Millions of Mammoths, Frozen Mammoths, and Tropical Seeds: [Aron's 7th of 9]: Aron brought up this topic on air as an example to my audience of how they can't trust what creationists say. He rejected my defense that the remains of millions of mammoths are known in the northern latitudes, saying, "there were 51 mammoths, not millions." He said that if we were having a written debate, we could actually document the evidence, so that the readers would know who was reliable. So, now that we are in that debate, it would have been nice of Aron to acknowledge that he was wrong about the number of mammoths. But instead, he dropped that error of his, and pressed these other disagreements:
- "I challenged Bob to show that there were ever any mammoths found frozen with tropical flora anywhere near them. Bob also said mammoths could not possibly survive in the environments where millions of them are known to have lived and I refuted his claims about those conditions too."
Sigmund Freud would have enjoyed this segment of our radio debate (at 15:30). Aron is bothered that he was mislead "since I was a little kid"¦" So here's how it actually went:
* Aron: "There were 51 mammoths." Bob: "There are millions."
- Aron: I found that there were 51 mammoths, not millions. And that none of them, not one, was found with tropical flora in their mouths"¦ so when you look into the data, if this were a written discussion...
- BE: I've got the data. The tonnage of mammoth tusks, that were sold on the worldwide market, indicate that there were millions of mammoths that were buried in Siberia, and at the Arctic Circle, and north of the Arctic Circle. And there were mammoths that had the seeds of tropical plants, the seeds, in their digestive track.
- Aron: Wrong.
- Enyart: We'll, I could give you the data.
- Aron: I challenge you.
- Enyart: Do you think I'm wrong?
- Aron: Yeah I do.
- Enyart: about [there being] over a million mammoths buried.
- Aron: Yeah. Yeah, I definitely do. And it's a formal challenge.
- Enyart: How about a $500 bet to your favorite charity, that the documentation shows that over a million mammoths have been buried?
- Aron: With tropical flora in their mouths?
- Enyart: No, no. There was just one like that.
So for the promised documentation, see above, see this post in Bob's written debate with Aron, and see Dr. Walt Brown's map along with his Table 8 which presents the locations and documentation for 58 sites shown where frozen mammoth and rhinoceros remains have been discovered.
Flashback: Bob Debates Evolutionist Eugenie Scott: An avid anti-creationist vs. Bob Enyart. The debate is decided in the first round after Bob asked the well-known scientist for evidence that any high level function had ever evolved, like eye sight, or hearing, or flight, or mobility in general? Through the hour-long debate, this evolutionist refused to offer any such evidence.That is, until:
Eugenie Flubs Genetics Prediction, Bob Hits the Bull's-eye: The evidence Eugenie did offer was Junk DNA. This scientist, from her Darwinist worldview, made a philosophical argument that a Creator would not fill our DNA with mostly junk. (Unlike the relatively few gene segments that code for the 20,000 proteins in the human body, the widespread evolutionary claim of the 1990s was that the rest of the genome had no function and so was called Junk DNA.) Bob, the Christian fundamentalist, answered from his biblical worldview, that our knowledge of genetics was in its infancy, and that it was too early to make the determination that all those non-coding segments of DNA had no function. After this 1998 debate, the next decade of explosive genetic discoveries overwhelmingly validated this creationist perspective, so much so that aside from coding for 20,000 proteins, it is estimated that the remainder of the genome has approximately one million other functional regulatory segments of DNA. So much for junk. So get this great DVD today!
* RSR Aron Ra Conversations with creationist Bob Enyart:
- Aron Ra and Enyart: Pt. 1
- Aron Ra and Enyart: Pt. 2
- Aron Ra and Enyart: Pt. 3
- Aron Ra and Enyart Begin Round Two: Pt. 4
- Fred Williams of RSR Weighs in on Aron Ra
- Aron Ra and Enyart: Pt. 5 (this show)
- Aron Ra and Enyart: Pt. 6
- Aron Ra and Enyart: Pt. 7