Endocrinologist Dr. Joel Brind in Studio on ABC Link

This is a special episode of Real Science Radio!

* National Cancer Institute Dissenting Opinion: that abortion is a significant risk factor for breast cancer was the voice of Prof. Joel Brind. Hear his explanation about how pregnancy hormones begin a process of differentiation of mammary gland cells, which abortion abruptly shuts down, leaving the woman with undifferentiated cells vulnerable to carcinogens. The demographic increase of breast cancer in American women matches our legalization of abortion through Roe v. Wade, as do increases around the world match the increased incidence of abortion. And see our 2010 update with Dr. Brind when the lead NCI research admits abortion is a serious increased risk factor  for breast cancer!

* Transcript: You can use the transcript below of this Abortion Breast Cancer program to make this especially important information even easier to share with others!

The following is a transcript of the Bob Enyart Live show entitled Endocrinologist Professor Joel Brind in Studio on ABC Link, (show # 190) which aired Friday, September 22, 2006.  Although every BEL show is important, we wanted to make this particular  show available in print, due to the impact it may have on telling women the truth about abortion and the obvious link to breast cancer.    Women's activists do not seem to value women as much as they do their cause.  Societies throughout history have abused and misused women, and this continues even today.

Christians are often accused of hateful speech, but it is not out of hate when we tell you that you're lifestyle, your choices are harmful.  It is because we care about you more than anyone, we will tell you the truth.

"Faithful are the wounds of a friend, but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful. "  Proverbs 27:6

Undifferentiated:  un·dif·fer·en·ti·at·ed 
1.    Having no special structure or function; primitive; embryonic. 
2.   Not differentiated; specifically (Biol.), homogenous, or nearly so; -- said especially of young or embryonic tissues which have not yet undergone differentiation (see Differentiation, 
3.   that is, which show no visible separation into their different structural parts.
Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.

From the "Bob Enyart Live" program, the show titled, "Endocrinologist Professor Joel Brind in Studio on ABC Link".     ©KGOV.com.    All Rights Reserved.

Transcription by Wayne Greer of  http://kgovarchives.com.  All Rights Reserved.

[ Begin Transcript ]

[Bob Enyart]  A week from Saturday, Colorado Right To Life will have their annual banquet., and the speaker is going to talk about the connection between abortion and breast cancer.  Her name is Eve Silver   She was with the Komen foundation, and some people think that this is just a PR stunt  by Pro-Lifers to try and use against abortion since we're against abortion.  Well in February of 2003, the National Cancer Institute had looked into risk factors for breast cancer, and they published their findings.  And, of course, they are (a) progressive, liberal organization, very much pro-choice.  And, so they don't see breast cancer and abortion, as being related.  Well there was a dissenting opinion that was published in that year, and it was by a New York City professor, Joel Brind, who has a Ph.D. in Endocrinology, and Joel I want to thank you for being with us in the studio.

[Dr. Joel Brind]  Thank you for inviting me.

[Bob Enyart]  Welcome to the show.  So they, I'm surprised even that you managed to get published, a dissenting voice.

[Dr. Joel Brind]  Well the only, part that they published, that is on the National Cancer Institute's website, was a couple of sentences, and they very deliberately did not even say who the author was, or where one could get a hold of the whole text.  So it's actually published on our website, which is the Breast Cancer Prevention Institute, at http://www.bcpinstitute.org and we have a lot of information on  the prevention of breast cancer.

[Bob Enyart]  And we would like to talk through some of that during this program. But, so they mentioned  there was a dissenting opinion, but that's it, they didn't give their readers any way to find out more about that?

[Dr. Joel Brind]  Well, it's a good idea to give a little background on it, the National Cancer Institute is actually a government agency, it is the largest of the National Institutes of Health.  And most of the cancer research money that is spend in the United States, is dispersed through the National Cancer Institute.  They post a fact sheet on their webpage, which they've had for a number of years, since the 1994 study in their journal, show that women that choose abortion have a 50% higher risk of getting breast cancer.  And that got very controversial, and they've spent a number of years since then, trying to kill those findings, very deliberately covering them up.

[Bob Enyart]  Now is that still on their website, or is that been...

[Dr. Joel Brind]  No.  What happened was, when Andrew C. von Eschenbach, President Bush's choice to head the National Cancer Institute came on board, the bureaucrats and career civil service scientist who basically fill the ranks of the National Cancer Institute, put on his desk a revised website which said basically, well now we know there really isn't any connection.
And that's what was then put up on the website, and there was a firestorm of protest from the conservative side, which prompted the administration to pull down that website pending further review.  Which also prompted a firestorm from the left. Anyway, that further review was this conference that you spoke about in 2003 and it was really a political charade designed to put the rubber stamp of approval of the NCI with this, the idea that it had somehow been debated and reviewed by a hundred international scientists, and so on.  It was, it was a fraud.  And, the easiest way to see that it was a fraud is to see that, here you had a controversial subject in medicine, does abortion increase the risk breast cancer or not?  And at this conference, there was only presentations from the side that said it was not.  No presentations from any scientist, even though there were several there, who acknowledge that there is a risk, an increased risk among women who choose abortion.

[Bob Enyart]  Now that fact that they even mentioned that there was a dissenting opinion is interesting, and you were that dissenting voice, and you've published that at bcpinstitute.org. But who are you?  Who is Professor Joel Brind?  I said you're a Ph.D. endocrinologist, what in the world is that?

[Dr. Joel Brind]  Well, we study hormones.  Endocrinologist study hormones, and the Ph.D.'s (is) to distinguish me from those M.D.'s or medical practitioners who look at hormones in patients and decide on causes and treatments and so on.  I'm a...

[Bob Enyart]  You teach on this subject?

[Dr. Joel Brind]  I'm a basic scientist, and I teach endocrinology and human biology, right.

[Bob Enyart]  And a hormone, seems to me, I know very little about this subject.. 

[Dr. Joel Brind]  ...well...

[Bob Enyart] ...a chemical signal in the body to get something going, start a process or something?

[Dr. Joel Brind]  Oh that's very good, that's exactly right. That's exactly what a hormone is.  It's (a) chemical signal from one part of the body to another to stimulate, or in someway change the behavior of some cell, or some tissue, or some organ that's somewhere else.  And the message is sent through the blood stream.

[Bob Enyart]   So hormones are regulatory?

[Dr. Joel Brind]  Oh yes.

[Bob Enyart]  Ok.  So now you have at least the basic science background to begin to investigate what's going on in a woman's body when she becomes pregnant.  We all know that that's a hormonal issue going on, her body's changing significantly.

[Dr. Joel Brind]  Yes indeed, in a hormonally normal pregnancy that is.  When a women becomes pregnant, her hormones do get raging, her estrogen and progesterone go sky high quiet quickly.  By the end of the first trimester, a woman's level of estrogen is 2000% higher than it is at the time of fertilization.  And that's true of a normal pregnancy.  Now one of the ways that the issue of abortion and breast cancer tends to be confused, is it gets confused with the fact is it does not increase a woman's risk of breast cancer if she has a miscarriage. The medical term for a miscarriage is spontaneous abortion. 

[Bob Enyart]   Right.

[Dr. Joel Brind]  And so there's this suggestion, that is repeated very often that, well there is no connection either induced or spontaneous abortion, as if it's the same sort of thing, it's just a pregnancy that's terminated either naturally or artificially. 

[Bob Enyart]  So a surgical abortion is not a natural miscarriage.

[Dr. Joel Brind]  Right.  A natural miscarriage is the termination of an abnormal pregnancy, and most of the time, it's abnormal in the sense that the hormones do not really get cranked up.  And one of the things those hormones do, in addition to the progesterone hormone sustaining the pregnancy, is the estrogen part of that combination, has as a job to make the breast grow and ultimately be large enough to produce milk by the end of the pregnancy. 

[Bob Enyart]  Okay.

[Dr. Joel Brind]  That's how pregnancy is connected to breast development in a very, very direct way.

[Bob Enyart]  So you agree with the findings, that a miscarriage, also called a spontaneous abortion, that a miscarriage is not a significant risk factor to breast cancer?

[Dr. Joel Brind]  That's correct.

[Bob Enyart]  Okay. So then there's the issue of abortion which is not a natural but an artificial termination of the pregnancy.  And I think again as a layman, the difference between stopping a process the right way and the wrong way, you know if (you) go to shut down your computer if you just pull the power plug, you might really mess up your computer.  Where as if you shut it down naturally, tell it to turn off, and it goes through its shutdown process, then you don't create a mess for yourself.

[Dr. Joel Brind]  Well the only natural way to turn off a normal pregnancy is a term birth.

[Bob Enyart]  Uh huh.

[Dr. Joel Brind]  Otherwise it's not a natural termination

[Bob Enyart]  So there's a birth, but then there's also a miscarriage where the body itself shuts down...

[Dr. Joel Brind]  ...right but, and that ...

[Bob Enyart]  ...the pregnancy condition.

[Dr. Joel Brind]  But the pregnancy condition is not the same, as it is in a normal pregnancy...  

[Bob Enyart]  ...it's different...

[Dr. Joel Brind]  ...see that's the, it's the pregnancy itself which is abnormal. And it's the nature of the pregnancy which explains exactly why having an abortion increases a woman's risk of getting breast cancer.  

[Bob Enyart]  So could we understand that now, there's obviously a difference between a miscarriage and an abortion. Why is it that an abortion could be a risk factor for breast cancer?

[Dr. Joel Brind]  Well the stimulation by estrogen, which is implicated in most risk factors for breast cancer, it makes the breast cells grow.  The breast tissue needs to grow in order for the breasts to get big enough to produce enough milk to feed a child at the end of the pregnancy.  So it takes off very quickly, and it stimulates the growth of breasts, which until a woman has a full term pregnancy are not mature.  Breasts are unusual in that, they are the only organs that are really not fully developed even by the time of puberty, when one would think that a girls body changes into a woman's body, and now her breasts become adult sized, that they are somehow fully developed.  They're not.  They're very primitive, and all they can do, is grow.  Because they're primitive cells which are capable only really of proliferation, the cells in the breasts that is, they're very vulnerable to the effects of carcinogens,  which is anything that can cause a mutation and ultimately give rise to a cancer later on.  Once a full term pregnancy takes place, and proliferation is finished, and the cells are therefore now differentiated into milk producing cells.  That process is accompanied by  a switching off of their ability to become stimulated to multiply or proliferate.  So now, a full term pregnancy even though there is more breast tissue, the breast tissue has become terminally differentiated, there are fewer of those primitive, undifferentiated cells in her breast, and that's where the cancers starts.  It's the undifferentiated structures what we call type 1 and type 2 lobules, which are present in a mature woman's breasts who has not had a pregnancy yet.  Once she's had a full term pregnancy, her breast is dominated by type 3 and 4 lobules which can produce milk and which do not produce cancer. 

[Bob Enyart]  Hum.

[Dr. Joel Brind]  So this explains a tremendous difference in risk.  And we know this, this has been confirmed not only in studies that show that women who've had abortions, have higher incidents of breast cancer, but also studies on very premature birth.  If a normal pregnancy is terminated before 32 weeks,  whether the baby survives or not is irrelevant.
A very early premature delivery before 32 weeks, also raises a woman's breast cancer risk substantially. So that 32 weeks is a very crucial time, when the growth, or proliferation, of the breast tissue has essentially been completed, and now it's a process of differentiation to convert these breasts into he ability to produce milk.

[Bob Enyart]  Now I'm pretty sure I understood the explanation you just gave, but let me ask a couple of related questions, and then I'd like to go through it again. A woman who carries a pregnancy full term and gives birth, what does the National Cancer Institute say about her risk for later developing breast cancer?

[Dr. Joel Brind]  It says, and very accurately, the National Cancer Institute and all the other authorities agree including myself, that a full term pregnancy lowers a woman's long term risk of breast cancer.  And the earlier, or the younger she is, when she has her first full term pregnancy, the greater that protection is.

[Bob Enyart]  The lower the risk. So they are admitting one half of this equation...

[Dr. Joel Brind]  ...absolutely...

[Bob Enyart]  ...that if a woman carries her first pregnancy full term, that that lowers her risk for breast cancer.

[Dr. Joel Brind]  Yes. any pregnancy, but especially the first because that determines the age at which her breast tissue becomes differentiated.  

[Bob Enyart]  Okay.  So that seems to be half of the battle, the question now is, if you have an abortion does that increase your risk factor, so they're admitting that if you have a baby and you go 9 months, that reduces your risk for breast cancer.

[Dr. Joel Brind]  Yes, but if you don't have a full pregnancy, then you don't get that protection. In other words, although they admit that, they deliberately disconnect the dots.  Why?  Because, what does informed consent mean?  If you're going to give a patient informed consent about any medication, or any surgical procedure, you have to tell them the difference in risk, if they have the procedure verses if they don't have the procedure.  And when you corner them, and you actually phrase it quiet directly, and say, if a woman is, let's say you take a teenager, and she's pregnant, is she going to have a higher risk of breast cancer if she has an abortion or if she has the baby,.  And under oath on the stand, when they're cornered in cross examination, their experts admit, she'll have a higher risk of breast cancer if she has the abortion. 

[Bob Enyart]  Right. Now that's because, for one, she's missing out on the benefit of having the baby...

[Dr. Joel Brind]  ...that's right...

[Bob Enyart]  ...there's a benefit there...

[Dr. Joel Brind]  ...absolutely...

[Bob Enyart]...but then there's the other side of that same coin, the increased risk if she...

[Dr. Joel Brind]  ...it's even worse than not having not got pregnant in the first place. Because there's been that extra kick, that stimulation of growth in the breasts, that she wouldn't have had if she didn't get pregnant in the first place..  So it's a double whammy, kind of thing.

[Bob Enyart] Okay.  This is starting to crystallize, that I'm understanding your explanation.   So when the woman becomes pregnant, a signal is sent out through her body, hormones, that she's now pregnant, so get ready to feed the baby.

[Dr. Joel Brind]  Right.

[Bob Enyart]  And her breasts begin to develop, and that starts a process that hadn't been going on in her life until then.  

[Dr. Joel Brind]  That's right.

[Bob Enyart]  And when that process is artificially terminated, then it leaves these cells in a state where they're still able to reproduce, but they haven't really been differentiated sufficiently to actually start making milk because she's no longer pregnant.

[Dr. Joel Brind]  That's right.

[Bob Enyart]  So it's shut down artificially, and those are the cells that are vulnerable to carcinogens and become cancerous.

[Dr. Joel Brind]  Right.  She has more of those cells that are vulnerable to carcinogens which translates to a greater risk of getting breast cancer. 

[Bob Enyart]   This is pretty straight forward biology. 

[Dr. Joel Brind]  It's very straight forward, yes.

[Bob Enyart]  And let me ask you this.  If this is true, if it's true that surgically terminating a pregnancy would increase the risk factor for breast cancer, then we should be able to look, forget about science, we should be able to look at demographics, historically since 1973 when Roe v. Wade was legalized across the nation by the U.S. Supreme Court, we should be able to track a significant increase in breast cancer in American woman, as compared to  before that date.

[Dr. Joel Brind]  Yes, in fact the National Cancer Institute itself when they came out in 2001, with their annual report on the status of cancer, they came out with not only breast cancer, but the statistics on all the major cancers for approximately the last decade of the 20th century. And for that decade, between 1986 to about 1998, 87 to 98, approximately the last decade of the century where they tallied all the statistics on the major cancers, they found that the overall rate of cancer in men and women, rose slightly.  When they looked at it more closely, between men and women, they found the rate of cancer had actually dropped in men 3% a year, and it increased in women a little more than 3% a year.   So the entire increase was due to the increase of cancer in women.  Look a little more closely, almost the entire increase, actually the entire increase, was due to breast cancer in women.  Look a little more closely, it was all due to woman who were under the age of 65 in 1998.  You do the math, that's women who's under the age of 40 in 1973, have accounted for the entire continuing increase in breast cancer incidents since the mid 1980's. 

[Bob Enyart]  So women of child bearing ages...

[Dr. Joel Brind]...so it's there, just as you say...

[Bob Enyart]  ...now that's, okay, that was from 1986 to 1998, what if we go back to the 50's, 60's, and the early 70's, and look at breast cancer in America, has there been an increase, obvious, even if we didn't know about that change in the 90's.  

[Dr. Joel Brind]   Well that change is the really first generation that's was really showing this large increase.  In other words, if they looked at the incidents of breast cancer among women of different age groups, 35-40, 40-50, in other words....

[Bob Enyart]  ...I see...

[Dr. Joel Brind]  ..woman, at that point who were under the age of 65, if you look earlier, it was women who were under the age of 50, and so forth.

[Bob Enyart]  In other words, it takes time...

[Dr. Joel Brind]  Yes.

[Bob Enyart]   If you have an abortion, you don't then develop breast cancer that year, say you're 18 years old...

[Dr. Joel Brind] ...right...

[Bob Enyart] ...you develop it later in life....

[Dr. Joel Brind]  That's right, it takes at least 8 to 10 years for it to develop.

[Bob Enyart]   At least 8 to 10 years...

[Dr. Joel Brind]. ...yeah...

[Bob Enyart]  ...that's at the early side?

[Dr. Joel Brind]  Pretty much, yeah, I mean it might be as early as 5, but typically it takes, if a cancer cell is produced at the time the abortion takes place let's say, then under ordinary conditions it takes about 8 to 10 years of that cell multiplying before it actually multiplies to get big enough to be detectable on a mammogram. 

[Bob Enyart]  Now are you describing that at the earliest point, and then there's a later point? Or is that...

[Dr. Joel Brind]  Well the later point we don't know yet.  And that's why it's important to keep doing some research on women as they get older and older.  This is a great experiment, this legalized abortion. I mean...

[Bob Enyart].  ...it's tragic...

[Dr. Joel Brind] ...most young woman who were alive in 1973 are still around, and a lot of them are now, we could now test this information with data that tracks women through at least the age of 60, if New York State would let us get our hands for example, on the database of fetal death certificates. But they are fighting to keep people from having access to the data, cause I think they know what it shows.

[Bob Enyart]  In a moment, I'm going to ask you to explain, you talked about lobules 1 and 2, 3,  I actually want a little more about that, to understand that part of it better, but a week from this Saturday, a former employee of the Komen Foundation, Eve Silver will be speaking at the Colorado Right to Life annual banquet, and she resigned the week of their annual March for...March..., Race for the Cure, because she had become aware that abortion was a major risk factor for breast cancer, and she brought it to Komen, and they just, of course, shut her down.  And not only that, they fund Planned Parenthood. 

[Dr. Joel Brind]  Right, she said, basically, do you fund Planned Parenthood?  It was difficult for her to get an answer, but she got an answer, that yes they do fund Planned Parenthood, and are you going to stop funding Planned Parenthood,  and they said they would not.  And she said she would no longer continue working for them.  She was actually the head of their Latino, or Latina Outreach Advisory Committee as I understand it.

[Bob Enyart]  Right, exactly.  And so she's trying to take information about breast cancer, and bringing it to the Hispanic community to protect women.  And  then she finds out the connection with abortion, she wants to warn people, and Komen, they're not gonna stand for that, so she resigned.  She'll be the speaker.  And now what we'd like to do is, if you could bear with me for a moment Joel, I'd like to play a commercial for that banquet coming up.  We'll be right back.

[Colorado Right to Life commercial plays. (Time index 20:11 - 21:12)]

[Bob Enyart]  All right. And I want to encourage people, we'd like to fill another table at that banquet, so call Colorado Right to Life, or call us right here at Bob Enyart Live, 800-8Enyart, that's 800-836-9278.   We're talking to Professor Joel Brind, with Baruch College in New York City, and Joel my wife and I, we love going back east and going to New York, we just love it.  Central Park...

[Dr. Joel Brind]  ...great time of year, wait till the leaves start turning...

[Bob Enyart]...Oh...Central Park, walking through it with our kids, we got three little boys and four bigger older, uglier ones but we just love walking through New York City in the fall, 

[Dr. Joel Brind]  We got a lot of great stuff.  Mountains we don't got...

[Bob Enyart] ...that's right...

[Dr. Joel Brind]  ...not big ones, but we got everything else.

[Bob Enyart]  Well let's tell the audience why you're out here in Colorado.

[Dr. Joel Brind]  I'm out here in Colorado speaking at the Care Net National Conference.  Care Net of course, runs pregnancy resource centers throughout the country, and counseling women  who are pregnant and wondering what to do about it.  And I'm giving workshops on not only the abortion breast cancer link, which I did yesterday, but tomorrow I'm going to be speaking on the overall strategies for preventing breast cancer.  The only reason we're really in existence, is because other groups like Komen aren't interested in talking about breast cancer prevention.  In fact the local Komen affiliate back east in New Jersey, they just had their Golf for the Cure, and they say that 75% of women who are diagnosed with breast cancer, have no know risk factors, which is bunk.  I mean, that's just, that's real fear mongering that these groups get involved with.

[Bob Enyart] It would be interesting to know what is the actual raw number, the percent, of women who develop breast cancer today, who've had abortions. 

[Dr. Joel Brind]   That's probably hard to say because...

[Bob Enyart] ... they don't track that...

[Dr. Joel Brind]  ...well it's not only that, it's just that there's also a large number of women who have had abortions period.  It's a very large, among younger women I think estimates, I've heard estimates up to 40 or 45% women have actually had abortions, and it's important to point out, that it's a contributing factor to breast cancer.  It can cause breast cancer, it doesn't necessarily cause breast cancer, which means that most women who have abortions do not get breast cancer.  And most women who have breast cancer did not have an abortion.  Now, does that mean we shouldn't say that abortion can cause breast cancer? Well, everybody talks about cigarettes causing lung cancer.  Do they tell you that 85% of long term cigarette smokers do not get lung cancer? ... 

[Bob Enyart] ...No... 

[Dr. Joel Brind]  ...that's true too.  

[Bob Enyart]  That's because if you love your neighbor, if you care about your neighbor...

[Dr. Joel Brind]  ...that's right...

[Bob Enyart]...you'll warn them of significant risk factors 

[Dr. Joel Brind] ...exactly.

[Bob Enyart]  ...and you know what, this is not the main reason to oppose abortion, because it's wrong to kill an unborn child.  But, when you do things that are wrong, there are consequences, side effects, symptoms,  and this happens to be one of them.  If you could help me explain that terminology you used, about the nodes 1 and 2...

[Dr. Joel Brind] ...lobules, yes.  Well the milk secreting units are, they're grouped into lobules.  And lobules, when they're mature and secreting milk  they are almost like bunches of grapes.  And each grape is actually like a self contained milk factory that produces milk and then squirts it into the milk ducts so the baby can drink it.

[Bob Enyart] Wow.

[Dr. Joel Brind]  Type one lobules, which is the kind of lobules that we're born with in our breast, men or women, they're undeveloped, is sort of like a, let's say the branches of an oak tree in February.  And then type two lobules is maybe as you start getting into early spring and you can see buds on them.  And then type three lobules is like where they're leafed out, and pretty much fully developed.  And type four are the ones that are actually secreting milk.  So once you get to type three they're pretty much mature.  And the difference is really like looking at a tree in January verses a tree in July.

[Bob Enyart]  Uh huh.  And then, where is it that the cells are vulnerable to carcinogens, which of those?

[Dr. Joel Brind]  It's the cells in the type 1 and 2 lobules because basically all they can do is proliferate, give rise to more cells in the, most of the pregnancy, up to about 32 weeks, so that they become big enough, and then they can become differentiated to produce milk.

[Bob Enyart]  Okay and then the last question about that, so that a surgical abortion, how does it effect those 1 and 2  verses the 3 and 4?

[Dr. Joel Brind]  Well it leaves them where they are.   It just leaves them, whatever lobules are type 1 and 2, they're left that way because those, once the abortion takes place, all those pregnancy hormones go back down to normal non-pregnant states, so that now you have more of those places for cancer to start than you had before you got pregnant in the first place.

[Bob Enyart]   Is it accurate to say, they didn't finish the transition?

[Dr. Joel Brind]  That's right, they just got produced, they didn't make the transition. 

[Bob Enyart]  So they were undifferentiated, they never got to there they were headed?.  

[Dr. Joel Brind]  That's right, 

[Bob Enyart]  And then they're vulnerable...

[Dr. Joel Brind] ...that's right. And this is not just the breast, but cells in general that are undifferentiated, are much more capable of forming cancer, because they're the cells that are stimulate-able to proliferate, and as we all know, cancer in general is a disease in which proliferation of cells has gotten out of control...

[Bob Enyart] ...right, that's what cancer is...

[Dr. Joel Brind] ...that's what cancer is.

[Bob Enyart]  ...uncontrollable growth of abnormal cells.  And so, we not only have the thesis, but we have the explanation at a biological level, we have the demographic data so show this is serious...

[Dr. Joel Brind] ... yes, and it all does tell perfectly.  But there's this incredible, on-going effort to cover this up by the most authoritative scientist in both government and voluntary  agencies and [the] World Health Organization, to cover this up.  It's really quiet massive.

[Bob Enyart]  The last question, we only have about half a minute, at what point does the mothers body know that, it's pregnant? When does Mom know she's pregnant, her body?

[Dr. Joel Brind]  She knows usually within a week or so after she gets pregnant, because she usually feels it in her breast.  Breast tenderness and swelling, and/or morning sickness are usually the first sign of pregnancy and it's because of those rising levels of estrogen, making the breast start to grow. 

[Bob Enyart]  And when are those hormones first released, when an egg is fertilized, does the mother, does her body not her, but does her body know that she's pregnant, once implantation happens?  or before?...

[Dr. Joel Brind]  ...No before, before implantation, the baby, the embryo starts secreting something called HCG, which is really baby's first cry,  a chemical signal to get ready to feed me.

[Bob Enyart]  Wow.  Alright, we're out of time, this has been Professor Joel Brind, Joel thank you so much, what an honor to have Joel in the studio...

[Dr. Joel Brind]  Thank you..

[Bob Enyart]  ...[Bob speaking, continues with closing credits]   

[ End of Transcript. ]

Transcript posted January 13, 2007.