* RSR Comments on an Atheist Forum: Warning: As is typical and unfortunately at this RS site also, beware the foul language (as per rsr.org/filthy) of the evolutionary forums, where many participants have a hard time communicating without repeated reference to human waste and reproduction. Spam Entrapment :) is a real thing at this atheist site, and Bob fell for it. Enyart has been interacting with a dozen atheists at RationalSkepticism.org on a thread about their belief in the evolution of the eye.
UPDATE - Thread Locked: A Rational Skepticism moderator has locked this thread, at least temporarily, on June 9, 2014. Bob had already been reprimanded:
- for putting his name and city at the bottom of his first post
- for using the names "Darwin and Dawkins"
- for accidentally capitalizing theropod's username
- apparently for signing some posts, just in plain text, without linking, as Bob Enyart, Real Science Radio. As theropod wrote, "I'm tempted to report your closing as intentionally inflaming..." One day later (as the Bible shows that thoughts become actions :) theropod went ahead and requested an end to the thread. Immediately after I posted that "Information transcends the physical media used to store or communicate it", theropod wrote, "Seriously people, I think it best we stop talking to, or about, Mr. Bob Enyart. I think the thread should be locked ASAP!" And the sooner the better. THWOTH locked it, at least temporarily, shortly thereafter. Meanwhile, Bob was attempting to post a comment (now available at rsr.org/willhud9) when the thread was locked. Stay tuned. If RS reopens this thread, we'll let you know!
UPDATE - Thread Unlocked: Later that day, THWOTH reopened the thread, with this helpful comment: "I would like to remind members contributing to this discussion of the 'attack the post not the poster' principle we aspire to here.. Please keep this in mind when posting. The thread is now open for business." Bob learned of the thread being reopened a week later and on June 19, posted his comment to willhud9.
Spam Entrapment Update - Bob Banned: The tolerance of the atheists at Rational Skepticism lasted for 27 posts. Bob Enyart's banning seemed to have gone like this:
- after his first post, ADParker wrote, "I have to wonder if you are actually interested in joining the forum as an active member, or if this is just a fly-by, time wasting, kind of thing. Because that happens a lot."
- Bob mentioned his debate, related to the thread's topic, with a Univ. of California professor of ophthalmology.
- Bait: Atheist ADParker asked Bob to provide information on how to find the debate. [spam entrapment? :) ]
- Bob replied, "I didn't put a link to the debate because I've had my hands slapped with a ruler when I've done that at other atheist sites, and then they block you, and then they boot you!"
- Smoking Gun: ADParker replied, "Not frowned on here at all. And being a forum moderator I should know." :)
- All of Bob's 27 posts were directly in response to the claims and questions posed in the thread.
- In what became his final post, Bob included a link to rsr.org/willhud9 (this appears to be his only link to RSR).
- Bob was banned.
- Reason given: bigoted spamming.
[quote="willhud9";p="2019310"][quote="Bob@RealScienceRadio";p="2019062"]...virtually the entire creation movement speaks with one voice in answering your question. Our answer is Genesis 3, the Fall. God created a paradise in which Adam and Even and their offspring could have lived forever. But with our rebellion against God, in His mercy, God limited the harm we can do to one another as we grow older and more selfish and bitter, by providing a contingency in the creation. If we turn against God, our bodies will no longer function forever; they will break down, and death will ensue. The fall, the groaning of creation itself, is one of the most fundamental aspects of the creation movement.[/quote]
^ Is so contradictory it is hard to find out where to begin. ... Where was the mercy in the narrative? He cursed Adam and Eve and exiled them from the garden.[/quote]
Death. Death was the mercy.
The longer that human beings live openly expressing their rebellion of God, as is evident of so many, the more bitter, selfish, and hateful they will become. Consider as an example this RationalSkepticism.org forum.
I know not to ask for civility, let alone human decency and kindness, from a forum like this that celebrates men sodomizing men, women dismembering their unborn children, the euthanizing of others, and the mocking of Jesus Christ who died for them. But I can use the general mean-spirited demeanor of atheist websites as evidence of the hatefulness that can hardly be contained within those who proclaim godlessness. You probably wouldn't ask, but I'll provide you with a similar assessment from non-creationists:
The New York Times article Unnatural Science is spot on about the science and evolution sites (like PZ Myers filthy blog). The Times article generally describes (anti-creation) science blogs like from "PZ Myers [who] revels in" a "weird vindictiveness", "religion-baiting", "preoccupied with... name-calling", "incendiary rhetoric that draws bad-faith moral authority from the word 'science'.” The Times writer Virginia Heffernen asks, "Does everyone take for granted now that science sites are where... researchers... go not to interpret data... but to... jeer at... churchgoers?" And she answers that, "the most visible" of "the science bloggers..." are "charged with bigotry". Even Atheist Prof. Massimo Pigliucci of the City University of New York describes the science webs of PZ, et al., as "a culture of insults... spouting venom or nonsense" and urged these bloggers to "enroll in the nearest hubris-reducing ten-step program" and suggested that they give "the best possible interpretation of someone else’s argument before you mercilessly dismantle it," and finally, "Engage... your opponents in as civil a tone as you can muster."
willhud9, just like here at RationalSkepticism.org, PZ Myers mocked me and my RSR friend Will calling us idiots in the title of his blog: Bob Enyart and Will Duffy, partners in idiocy. Like RS and many atheist blogs, Myers' site is filled with vulgarity and constant references to human waste and sex acts. If you think you're just an animal, you gradually lose sight of your higher virtues; then reproduction and defecation is pretty much all you got. These atheistic science sites, rather than exemplifying diversity, free speech, tolerance, instead, drip with intolerance, anger, bodily fluids, and hatred toward those who disagree.
So, to state it again willhud9, after man rebelled against God, in His mercy, God ensured that we would die, so that our hatred would be contained, and we would not forever be able to harm one another. Whoever asks God to live with Him shall, and whoever does not want to life with God forever shall not, but also, they shall not forever be able to hurt others. (That is the merciful part.)
[quote="willhud9";p="2019310"]Where is this mercy of God limiting the harm we can do?[/quote]
It is in death willhud9.
[quote="willhud9";p="2019310"][quote="Bob@RealScienceRadio";p="2019062"](As you may know, Darwinists themselves have struggled to account for the depth and capacity of human suffering which seems to go so far beyond what would be brought about by a mere natural selection for biological survival.)[/quote]
The bolded bit is an unsubstantiated assertion.[/quote]
Yes, I didn't source it. I thought that was common knowledge. I don't have time now to dig up sources. Perhaps someone here at RS can post some.
[quote="willhud9";p="2019310"]Furthermore the Fall is not a consistent part of your worldview. It is full of holes and contradictions that only the idiom "God works in mysterious ways" can fill and when that line is given the entire worldview simply becomes "when I don't know the answer: God" which begs the question of why hold onto that ideology if logic and rationality poke so many holes into it.[/quote]
willhud9, in more than 30 years of talking with skeptics and atheists, I don't recall ever answering someone's question about the fall, sin, suffering, or death, with anything like God works in mysterious ways. To me it seems that these issues are dealt with directly in the Bible and the basic understanding of them are straightforward. Those Christians who do struggle with such questions (like Billy Graham after 9/11) are those who follow the ancient pagan Greek concept of fate and believe that all things, good and evil, including kidnappings, tortures, and rape, flow from the mind of God and were eternally decreed by Him. Those Christians, though they may be true Christians, have been influenced by the ancient Greeks, especially through Plato & Aristotle, to think that everything is part of an unchangeable plan, and so for them, they look at a child rapist, and call it a mystery. The rest of us Christians refer to that as sin. Hatred born of indulging in selfishness that flows from a rejection of God.
It seems to me a straightforward matter that love is the answer to the problem of evil, at each of its various levels, and that love requires freedom, because love must be freely given. There are implications of this which might not be evident at first thought, but by the second or third thought, they usually do become evident. Then, you might not agree with us creationists and our understanding of the fall, but at least you would understand it.
Thanks willhud9, again, for the opportunity to discuss such monumentally important questions as suffering and freedom.
- Bob Enyart
* Select Bob Enyart Forum Threads: Here are (fun and some even funny) select discussion threads from various forums:
- RationalSkepticism.org: (see above) on the evolution of eye during which Bob was spam entrapped
- The BB theory has "only one" serious problem claims NASA as discussed on CosmologyQuest.org's anti-BB forum
- The Denver Post forum on NPR suing BEL including with Dominic on homosexuality
- The atheistic PhysicsForums.com thread: on the predictions of the big bang theory
- The BEL YouTube channel comments are far more relevant, respectful, and worthwhile than most. See for example:
- James White and R.C. Sproul Jr. shockingly denying that the Son took upon Himself a human nature
- Trading Genesis Bob delivered his critique of theistic evolution on the Malibu campus of Pepperdine University
- Global Flood Bob's presentation on the flood of Noah's day and Dr. Walt Brown's hydroplate theory
- Dump Starbucks over their support for homosexual marriage, where Bob replies to plenty of homos
- And really any of the comment threads over at the BEL YouTube channel which has thousands of posts
- Find more similarly helpful lists at kgov.com/about and kgov.com/spats
- Recommend a thread! Just email the link to Bob@rsr.org. Thanks!